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Topic:
New Sonos "AMP"
This thread has 94 replies. Displaying posts 46 through 60.
Post 46 made on Friday August 31, 2018 at 22:23
buzz
Super Member
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You can use your own address to get the system going, then transfer the system to another address. Since there are music service registrations and voice response tie ins, it is no longer practical to use your own address for all registrations. Besides, each of these platforms wants a chance to poach your customer — companies really need that email address.
Post 47 made on Friday August 31, 2018 at 23:51
mrtristan
Select Member
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1,576
If Sonos succeeds in dealing with your customers directly and takes you out of the picture forever then we all need to start looking at different careers. Things evolve and change and you have to change with it. I really do blame other companies in the audio industry for taking too long in providing installers with better options. We all sound like suffering Taxi drivers blaming Uber for providing a solution that’s gaining lots of acceptance...or the Blockbuster owner saying, “do not tell people about Netflix!!”

This is the end of our road, my friends. I am currently grooming my children to career paths that will help with my retirement as that is the only thing I can do now.

Those who are using MusicCast or Denon, what music services are you using within the app if it’s not Spotify or Apple music? Let me know a great option and I will consider switching from Sonos.

Last edited by mrtristan on September 1, 2018 00:04.
Post 48 made on Saturday September 1, 2018 at 01:14
Brad Humphrey
Select Member
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2,146
On August 31, 2018 at 23:51, mrtristan said...
what music services are you using within the app if it’s not Spotify or Apple music? Let me know a great option and I will consider switching from Sonos.

Napster, Tidal, Deezer, Pandora, Amazon Music, Google Play Music, SoundCloud, iHeart Radio, etc...

You don't know these?
Although not all those are available on every speaker system.

I'm beginning to think I should just throw a ChromeCast Audio on a multi-channel amp and call it a day. The few times I have done that, the customer's have been the happiest and stayed that way.

Last edited by Brad Humphrey on September 1, 2018 01:23.
Post 49 made on Saturday September 1, 2018 at 07:16
mrtristan
Select Member
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1,576
Interesting..Google Play sounds workable. Need to see if their library is as vast as Spotify or Apple Music. I did realize the other day that Amazon is not available on Sonos. That was a bit disappointing.
Post 50 made on Saturday September 1, 2018 at 07:49
Zohan
Super Member
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3,092
I get around the email issue by opening a new gmail for the client.

Each client gets
(theirlastname)(a 4 digit code that is the same for everyone)@gmail.com
So the only variable is clients last name.

On another note - Did the ability to add a pandora station from within the sonos app disappear?
Havent done that in a while and tried recently but cant find it..
Post 51 made on Saturday September 1, 2018 at 09:47
tomciara
Loyal Member
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7,396
Amazon Music is still there.

You cannot create a Pandora station directly, you have to use the all encompassing search, and then look for the results from within Pandora and the other services.
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
Post 52 made on Saturday September 1, 2018 at 10:26
highfigh
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delete, please

Last edited by highfigh on September 1, 2018 10:37.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 53 made on Sunday September 2, 2018 at 00:47
Stryker
Long Time Member
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394
On August 31, 2018 at 23:51, mrtristan said...
If Sonos succeeds in dealing with your customers directly and takes you out of the picture forever then we all need to start looking at different careers. Things evolve and change and you have to change with it. I really do blame other companies in the audio industry for taking too long in providing installers with better options. We all sound like suffering Taxi drivers blaming Uber for providing a solution that’s gaining lots of acceptance...or the Blockbuster owner saying, “do not tell people about Netflix!!”

This is the end of our road, my friends. I am currently grooming my children to career paths that will help with my retirement as that is the only thing I can do now.

Those who are using MusicCast or Denon, what music services are you using within the app if it’s not Spotify or Apple music? Let me know a great option and I will consider switching from Sonos.

This post makes me feel disappointed. Who is complaining? Our industry is amazing compared to other Constuction trades.

Sonos is a product that works and is very reliable. Perfect it is not but what is? Use it to your advantage. Leverage the brand awareness and push. A Sonos connect feeding a DSP amp into a kick ass pair of speakers is a money maker. And a happy client.

If Sonos can Take your client because they have an email address than good on Them and shame on you.

Clients call you because they trust you and would rather pay you than to have to figure out things themselves.

So be a professional and provide them with more and they will pay and you will both be happy!

Last edited by Stryker on September 2, 2018 01:00.
"If they give you ruled paper, write the other way"
Post 54 made on Sunday September 2, 2018 at 10:46
sirroundsound
Senior Member
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1,085
Sonos, Yamaha Music cast, Heos, Bluesound and Autonomics plus I am sure there are a few other odd pieces out there.
Much like the control systems everyone here uses, they all have at least one quirk or another.
The only music streaming device from the list above I have not had a chance to use is Heos.
All of the others are out there working away in small or large systems and I have happy clients that still call me to service their systems or upgrade.
A client may not have the type of budget you typically work with, some sort of streaming / amp with speakers will make them happy.
Better budget, streaming device going into an amp of your choice and better speakers. Happy client, more money for you.
I don't see where the big loss is.
We used to sell tuners and cd players connected to an audio matrix then amplifiers to speakers.
Tuners and CD players typically did not have huge dollars attached to them, so the only thing we are missing now is the audio matrix.
Sell them Sonos connect or whatever, still use the nice big rack mounted amplifiers you always used to sell, and put in those nice speakers.
If the control system you want to sell does not do Sonos well, it probably does Yamaha or Autonomics.
Maybe you will get some push back on the overall control system, after all they now can control the music from an app that will or should always work.
Take the money from the control system and upsell them on better sound, top of the line TV's with real quality speaker bars connected to whatever you use. remind them how much more we are watching today with all the streaming services like Netflix etc and how a good picture should also have good sound.
A fair number of clients I deal with are still trying to figure out what and how they are going to listen to music. They may have tried a streaming service, or still have a lot of their music in Itunes. Talk to them, figure out what direction you can take them and sell them the system that will work for them.
If the system does bluetooth or you can add a bluetooth device to an Aux input you leave the door wide open for the client to potentially use future services from a phone or tablet too.
We have always had to educate our clients.
Progressive scan TV's, High def, now 4K LED and OLED.
Satellite dishes, DVD, HDdisc, Bluray.
A brand (Sonos) may feel like they own the market, but we are here to help people choose the product that is right for them. And sometimes it will be Sonos.
Post 55 made on Sunday September 2, 2018 at 14:34
radiorhea
Super Member
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3,254
On September 2, 2018 at 00:47, Stryker said...
This post makes me feel disappointed. Who is complaining? Our industry is amazing compared to other Constuction trades.

Sonos is a product that works and is very reliable. Perfect it is not but what is? Use it to your advantage. Leverage the brand awareness and push. A Sonos connect feeding a DSP amp into a kick ass pair of speakers is a money maker. And a happy client.

If Sonos can Take your client because they have an email address than good on Them and shame on you.

Clients call you because they trust you and would rather pay you than to have to figure out things themselves.

So be a professional and provide them with more and they will pay and you will both be happy!

THIS....RIGHT....HERE....BOYS!!!!!
Drinking upstream from the herd since 1960
Post 56 made on Sunday September 2, 2018 at 16:11
Richie Rich
Senior Member
Joined:
Posts:
July 2002
1,135
I think we all just have to accept the fact that like pretty much all other trades out there, we will be almost totally reliant on our labor $ as our source of revenue.

And the amount of labor we can charge for will continue to shrink as more "plug and play", consumer oriented products come onto the market.

We used to have solid margin on displays, control system equipment, lighting, speakers, source gear, networking, and surveillance systems.

Now what do we have left?
Displays: Some okay margins on boutique displays (really large, projectors, mirror, outdoors and some cutting edge stuff), otherwise video is a lost cause

Control systems: Yes, there is still C4, RTI, URC, Crestron etc. But I see fewer people wanting those sorts of things and when they do, it is like pulling teeth to get them to drop for them. And there is Harmony.

Source gear: What source gear? Streaming is pretty much it. No margin in 99% of the "little black boxes". This also makes a lot of people move away from distributed sources so forget that HDMI matrix, rack and associated equipment.

Lighting control: Other then panelized lighting, there are a plethora of companies out there selling fairly dirt cheap "smart" lighting.

Networking: Eero and other low cost plug and plays are pretty much replacing the Luxul and Pakedge stuff that I typically spec.

Surveillance: People can buy Hikvision (admittedly grey market) off Amazon for less then my cost for USA product. Can warn people about the issues but all they see are $ signs. Also: Nest

So yeah, pretty much all we have left now is speakers, some control systems and every once and a while you get lucky and land a customer that won't/can't be bothered to price shop you on Amazon or one of the many "unauthorized" dealers out there that sell for less then 5% over dealer.

It is what it is. We are quickly becoming buggy whip manufacturers in the age of the automobile or yellow cab drivers in the time of Uber and Lyft. Then again I bet the few buggy whip manufacturers that are out there do pretty well.

Add in the non stop barrage of firmware updates, everything requiring utterly perfect internet connectivity and the inherent wonky nature of HDMI and the time/costs associated with dealing with that stuff and I don't like where this is leading.

I long for the old days when there was pretty much no such thing as firmware, network connectivity wasn't even part of a system, video pretty much worked once it was established as solid and a rack full of gear (that you made money on) is what what was required to give clients the experience that they wanted.
I am a trained professional..... Do not attempt this stunt at home.
Post 57 made on Monday September 3, 2018 at 01:38
tomciara
Loyal Member
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7,396
The only constant in business is change. Your business model will get realigned or changed dramatically every 5 to 10 years. You can’t go back.

I started out fixing turntables and tape decks among other things. Not doing much of that today!

What keeps us going is clients who don’t want to mess with the stuff we install. It doesn’t matter how plug and play it gets, they are either too intimidated by anything electronic, or they have no interest in spending their valuable free time messing with wires. They want us to do it, and they just want to sit down and enjoy it.

And you will have work as long as people like that exist. Your job is to create a business model where that can happen. It won’t be done with lower labor rates. It may happen with less time invested, but rates will undoubtedly have to rise periodically to cover the cost of doing business.
There is no truth anymore. Only assertions. The internet world has no interest in truth, only vindication for preconceived assumptions.
Post 58 made on Monday September 3, 2018 at 06:55
buzz
Super Member
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May 2003
3,719
Not so long ago, personal transportation implied feeding and training livestock, mending saddles and carriages, and blacksmithing. This could literally be a self contained family function or business, cradle to grave.

At one point I would personally do most of my own auto maintenance. Since I didn't have a machine shop, cylinder boring was out of my league, but most other tasks were within my range and I was certainly more capable than the typical mechanics at the local garage/gas station. (any electrical issue beyond replacing a fuse was an enigma for them -- if they could even find and diagnose the fuse) I was not unique.

Now, routine auto service involves codes and replacing transducers and automated valves. Spark plug replacement is a rare event and distributor points and dwell time adjustments don't exist.

A recent experience was quite different from my earlier auto maintenance methods. i had a major engine hesitation while pulling out into traffic. In the old days I'd be checking fuel flow, air flow, spark, timing, wires, hoses, PCV valves and such. Unless I got lucky early on, this could be a morning, afternoon or all day experience -- assuming that there was no delay obtaining parts. I took my car to a local, capable shop, they reviewed the codes, identified a defective transducer, ordered and installed a replacement and I was on my way in about two elapsed hours. While waiting, I was able to work using my laptop and cellphone. All this for about $200.

I was happy and the shop was happy. This shop is actually a family business. While I'm sure that this business is not a transformed horse and buggy outfit from previous centuries, their business has evolved and my business has evolved. They don't do much machining, but they are located along a "strip" that supports automotive service. There are machine shops and a major parts depot (we deliver, usually within the hour) nearby.

I don't do retail at this point and I can recall reps and manufacturers asking why I couldn't be more like the other larger stores (implying that they "got it" and I didn't). Almost all of those "smart guys" are gone at this point. (you can count survivors on one hand without running out of fingers)

Sure, just like I'm a recovering auto mechanic, many of my customers are recovering stereo mechanics. However, "stereo" has become more network and control programming oriented, similar to auto repair becoming "codes". I can quickly pick through the network and control, while my customer makes deals.

The question for each of our businesses comes down to -- are you willing to adapt?
Post 59 made on Monday September 3, 2018 at 19:59
SOUND.SD
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
April 2006
5,523
On September 2, 2018 at 16:11, Richie Rich said...
I think we all just have to accept the fact that like pretty much all other trades out there, we will be almost totally reliant on our labor $ as our source of revenue.

And the amount of labor we can charge for will continue to shrink as more "plug and play", consumer oriented products come onto the market.

We used to have solid margin on displays, control system equipment, lighting, speakers, source gear, networking, and surveillance systems.

Now what do we have left?
Displays: Some okay margins on boutique displays (really large, projectors, mirror, outdoors and some cutting edge stuff), otherwise video is a lost cause

Control systems: Yes, there is still C4, RTI, URC, Crestron etc. But I see fewer people wanting those sorts of things and when they do, it is like pulling teeth to get them to drop for them. And there is Harmony.

Source gear: What source gear? Streaming is pretty much it. No margin in 99% of the "little black boxes". This also makes a lot of people move away from distributed sources so forget that HDMI matrix, rack and associated equipment.

Lighting control: Other then panelized lighting, there are a plethora of companies out there selling fairly dirt cheap "smart" lighting.

Networking: Eero and other low cost plug and plays are pretty much replacing the Luxul and Pakedge stuff that I typically spec.

Surveillance: People can buy Hikvision (admittedly grey market) off Amazon for less then my cost for USA product. Can warn people about the issues but all they see are $ signs. Also: Nest

So yeah, pretty much all we have left now is speakers, some control systems and every once and a while you get lucky and land a customer that won't/can't be bothered to price shop you on Amazon or one of the many "unauthorized" dealers out there that sell for less then 5% over dealer.

It is what it is. We are quickly becoming buggy whip manufacturers in the age of the automobile or yellow cab drivers in the time of Uber and Lyft. Then again I bet the few buggy whip manufacturers that are out there do pretty well.

Add in the non stop barrage of firmware updates, everything requiring utterly perfect internet connectivity and the inherent wonky nature of HDMI and the time/costs associated with dealing with that stuff and I don't like where this is leading.

I long for the old days when there was pretty much no such thing as firmware, network connectivity wasn't even part of a system, video pretty much worked once it was established as solid and a rack full of gear (that you made money on) is what what was required to give clients the experience that they wanted.

That's sad that you've convinced yourself and your customers of that. It's simply not true. We sell more of everything you listed now than ever.
Bulldog AV - San Diego, CA
www.bulldog-av.com
[Link: facebook.com]
Post 60 made on Monday September 3, 2018 at 20:10
SOUND.SD
Loyal Member
Joined:
Posts:
April 2006
5,523
My point of view of the entry level stuff has simply increased customer awareness. It's your job to explain to them why what you sell is better than the entry level stuff that was designed for "small condos and dorm rooms, not an estate of this size and quality". This is what I'm talking about when I say that Sonos has made you lazy.
Bulldog AV - San Diego, CA
www.bulldog-av.com
[Link: facebook.com]
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