Folks-
This is most certainly a REMOTE forum above anything else, therefore one more MAC comment and we should cease the waste of threads...
A posting from a mac-user named Robin indicated that perhaps Philips "stole" the GUI for Pronto, and somehow the eliteist Apple people are deservith of a "MAC version of Pronto" etc etc. Well Robin, with the Mac market having a 6-8% marketshare, and most of that via the K-8th grade consumers via their school...where would a MAC version of Pronto been worth Philips' time and investment? Apple would not have, (and has NEVER) allowed access for developers to work with their platform by "opening it up for development" via SDK kits etc. So what Company would WANT to waste their time on such a platform??! Blame the dis-illusioned Marketing knuckleheads @ Apple. Besides, Apple likes to be the sole creater/seller of anything that will work with a MAC. Give them a call and see where they are with regard to development.

I would also like to see and end to the MAC threads -- one should have been enough.

To believe that companies should be "obligated" to invest in MACs, when they are such a small percentage of the population base is business nonsense. That's like asking record companies to continue to produce new albums in vinyl because they are alienating another (potentionally loyal) customer base.

While asking if there will be a MAC version is a legedimate question, bashing companies because they don't is nonsense. It costs a lot to make investiments like that, and in order for it to be justified there has to be a return on it. Even when MACs were at their height, when a customer demanded that my company's product needed to be on a MAC we required that they pay for that effort. If it was worth it to them, they did and got a product in return. As has been pointed out, Apple not being third-party friendly didn't help either.

I use to be an Amiga user once. While I thought it was a great system (heck, even it's MAC emulator ran faster than a MAC), I got tired of going to shows and stores and only seeing one shelf of items for that system. I eventually dumped it and went intel/windows. The most productive choice is not based solely on the best technology or who may have had it first. I am proficient in 5 operating systems (including VMS -- the best CLI OS ever ;-) -- I had to do this to keep with the times, not because one was better.

Blind vendor loyalty is dumb and serves no one but the vendor. If you really want to have the best of both worlds (i.e. your favoriate system and access to a large software base) -- get both OS's. Windows is certainly cheap enough to do that.

Excellent points Keith.
Unfortunately it is always the MAC consumer minority who are so quick to say "We are being oppressed, develop software for us "non- WINtel" folks".
Someday they will speak to Steve Jobs about their collective issues. But he may need another couple of Mil$ from MicroSoft to do any development, on anything.

Guys and gals;

Certainly this is not a Mac vs Wintel forum. There are plenty of other forums out there that this continuing debate can be directed towards. While I (a Mac & PC user/administrator) certainly would not mind seeing a Mac version of the software, a developer must obviously make their choices based upon market share and the all-mighty $$$.

However, I do take issue with regards to the constant flaming of us vs. them vs. whoever. Can't we just all get along? A user selects an OS based upon their own individual needs and desires. Could we not put our collective minds to better use by educating, and providing each other with good, solid and informative information to help others make the best decision/selection possible instead of the constant posturing and bickering of "my OS is better than yours?" Both OS's have their individual strengths and shortcomings. *Neither* are perfect.

Case in point. I have been looking to lose my 9 remotes 'cause I really don't wish to look like a remote geek. But after stumbling blindly into this forum and gathering other good info elsewhere also, I made my decision to go with the Pronto. Why? Because all of the people here provided information and their opinions (good or bad) and this helped me select the Pronto instead of a Marantz MK II.

So, Robin, if you read this, you'll want to get a PC emulator from Insignia or Connectix. This will allow you to run the Pronto editing software on your Mac. It will also allow you to run virtually all PC software as well. But be *forewarned*, these are emulators and you will pay a definite speed penalty. You'll be wanting to use this on the fastest Mac you can with lots of RAM. But at about $140-180, it beats buying a whole PC if all you need to do is edit Pronto. Yes, I know, spend more money, but let's face it, your options at this point are limited.

Your other option is to bug the heck out of Philips. If they hear enough out of the Mac community, they just might port it over.

Just my 2 cents.

In my opinion, the question asked ("will the software be made available on the platform I use?") is a reasonable one, and was asked in a respectful way. I'm surprised that Keith and Gumby responded so emotionally.

Having worked on both platforms as a software developer for many years now, working as a third party developer for Microsoft and Apple platforms, and for Apple itself for 4 yrs, I find it a little strange that an almost religous fervor is expressed in favor of one platform or the other, ironically usually by individuals that don't have any hands-on experience with the 'other' platform. Both products have their strengths and weaknesses, as do both companies.

Ironically, Pronto was created using both platforms - user interface, graphics & fonts were created using Mac tools, OS, application and hardware developed using the PC.

As far as a MacOS version of the app being released, it seems unlikely, unless someone does it as a 'spare time' project. And no-one on the team has much spare time...

p.s. I was glad to see mention of one of the companies I worked for - Insignia :-) Thanks for the mention, Pat.

I find it interesting that the gumby & Keith both start out by stating that they'd like to see the end of Mac threads, but go on to add more to it. The logic just isn't there... kinda like the facts they try to post, but just don't have a clue about. Since I'm always willing to keep a non"issue" based thread alive, unless the moderator asks us to desist, I'll gladly throw in my views without the shame of sounding like a hypocrite.

First of all, most of the Mac's 10% market share isn't education based. The Mac does hold market share over all other brands of computers in education but no where near 50% of Mac's shipped go to schools. Watch prime time? What do you see? Macs. Watch a movie? If a computer is in a movie, chances are it's a Mac. See Spawn, Starship Troopers, T2, etc, etc. The CGI in many movies is created in great part with Macs. Go into a print shop or design agency? Chances are very great your gonna find Macs... lots of em. The list goes on, but you get the point.

Apple has SDK's available, and has had them available for many years, to developers. As far as companies that "WANT to waste their time" with Apple, the list is too numerous to mention, but Adobe, Macromedia, Netscape, Microsoft, Quark, Intuit are just a few of the hundreds of companies that create software for the Mac. Many of these companies started with Mac software, and that's what made them great in the first place.

With regard to:
"Apple likes to be the sole creater/seller of anything that will work with a MAC"
what RUBBISH!!! I've got 5 Mac's and that's all I own that is Apple. I've got over $750,000 in hardware & software connected to these Mac's that have nothing to do with Apple... other than Apple's help in development.


Regarding Keith's response:

While the word "obligated" isn't appropriate, it isn't nonsense for many companies to invest in Mac's. Suppose you're planning a piece of software that you hope will ship at least 100,000 units, 10% (the Mac market share) is 10,000 units and that's hardly something to sneeze at especially when many compilers can compile for x86, 680x0, & PPC in one package, and all that's left if is handling of system toolbox calls & overhead. I've got a software package that allows me to write code for any Mac and all newer PC's will very little modification & intervention.

I think bashing isn't nonsense. If Mac users just laid down & played dead, there would be no further development of Quicken for the Mac, Mac's would be forced out of Johnston Space Center & NASA, there would be no online banking support from many banks such as Wells Fargo, many game publishers have rethought their lack of Mac support till they found out exactly what 10% of the computing community actually meant in dollars & SENSE. Apple sold more computers last month than any other computer company. Hardly something to ignore.

I don’t think any Mac user feels that they are being repressed. Any Mac user can buy a copy of Pagemaker, Photoshop, MiniCad, Vellum, Excell, Word, Illustrator, and a list of a few hundred other titles so there is no need to feel repressed.

I honestly don’t think Steve Jobs needs to ask for a couple “Mil$” from anyone. Considering Apple has $1.4 billion in the bank, that’d be like me asking for a couple of dimes from my neighbor. Sure it’d be nice, but it’d hardly make a dent in my finances.

All that said, I have to say that I don’t feel Philips needs to spend the effort to bring a version of their software to the Mac. It’s just not that important. My only point in rambling on as I did was to inform the uninformed that the gumby’s & Keith’s opinion isn’t based on facts... only misconceptions.

Cheers,

Alan

I think one thing missing here is the fact that the software isn't necessary to the operation of the Pronto. You don't need it to program, create macros, etc. I'm not using the software and the Pronto seems more than productive to me.

The software will allow greater customization, ease of programming, etc., but still isn't required.

Let's also not forget how cheap you can buy Intel systems now - one of the driving forces behind it's popularity. Apple's new consumer-level entry, the iMac, still misses the "price/performance/value" bar by a wide margin - and heck, there isn't even a serial port to plug the Pronto in!

Just to add my two cents to the thread, and I'll keep it short. It's not a matter of Mac Vs. WIntel to me. It's a matter of WIntel-Only to me. The root of the problem is the difference between a "Standard" and a "Monopoly". Clearly, WIntel has a "Monopoly", and anyone that can prove otherwise is blind to the facts. What we need, clearly, is a "Standard", either letting MS Windows operating information out so that other OS's can support the same programs (Apple isn't the only one that isn't entirely developer-friendly), or a new standard needs to be created and then converted to, so that software everywhere doesn't require a specific platform. Don't say it can't be done, because it can. And that's the end of my rant. :)

Oops.

My apologies to Daniel for starting a flame war on an otherwise intelligent site.

In my defence, I really didn't think the Windows users would get so emotional about something that doesn't concern them in any way.

So, lets just assume that there will be no Mac (or other) version of ProntoEdit in the near future, and leave it at that. Also, I would hope that this does not deter anyone for asking for a version on thier platform of choice.

I am glad to know that "a helpful person..." is involved in this project in some way, as he/she does appear to know what they are talking about.

Robin

How about we all just cheer on Linux and have the others both go off into a corner and moan about each others approach.

Linux and all the other flavors of UNIX have their own problems. When moving a program from one system to another, you usually have to recompile the program. System management is far beyond the scope of the average home user, etc.

As to some points made above:

"I think bashing isn't nonsense."

Depends. Often bashing is done simply to start a flame war. Offering one's opinion in a civil manner can lead to an intelligent, informative debate.

"Apple sold more computers last month than any other computer company. Hardly something to ignore."

While that may be true, there were FAR more Windows systems sold than Mac systems last month. If Apple had opened their hardware to allow third parties to build compatible systems years ago, we might have been arguing from the opposite perspective :).

"I don’t think any Mac user feels that they are being repressed. Any Mac user can buy a copy of Pagemaker, Photoshop, MiniCad, Vellum, Excell, Word, Illustrator, and a list of a few hundred other titles so there is no need to feel repressed."

Considering that the PC user has a choice of those same "few hundred" titles (with a few exceptions perhaps) in addition to thousands of other titles, Mac users should certainly feel repressed. Factoring in the fact that many small handy packages, such as Pronto Edit and small shop packages are available only for the MS Windows platform would be especially frustrating.

"Watch a movie? If a computer is in a movie, chances are it's a Mac."

If you're referring to a computer being used to create animation and other special effects, it's more likely to be something like a Silicon Graphics workstation or other more specialized graphics terminal.

In any event, this discussion is completely irrelevant to the Pronto (aside from inquiring as to whether a Mac version of ProntoEdit will ever exist).

In my opinion the choice of a MS Windows system or a Mac comes down largely to personal choice. However, if you want the flexibility of running the software of your choice, the MS Windows system is (perhaps sadly) the obvious choice.

>> "I think bashing isn't nonsense."

> Depends. Often bashing is done simply to start a flame war. Offering one's opinion in a civil manner can lead to an
> intelligent, informative debate.

Exactly my point!

> > "Apple sold more computers last month than any other computer company. Hardly something to ignore."

> While that may be true, there were FAR more Windows systems sold than Mac systems last month. If Apple had opened
> their hardware to allow third parties to build compatible systems years ago, we might have been arguing from the opposite
> perspective :).

> Considering that the PC user has a choice of those same "few hundred" titles (with a few exceptions perhaps) in addition to
> thousands of other titles, Mac users should certainly feel repressed. Factoring in the fact that many small handy packages,
> such as Pronto Edit and small shop packages are available only for the MS Windows platform would be especially
> frustrating.

I personally don’t think the Mac would have ever been on the opposite side of the platform market share. The die was cast prior to the Mac’s birth and no amount of marketing,
platform “openness”, or any other criteria would have made the Mac market share leader. My only point in bringing light to the fact that the Apple has sold more computers (over 300,000) than any other company last month is to stress that the Mac is not a toy but a serious platform worthy of any SERIOUS software publishers consideration. Which brings us to your next point. The additional thousands of titles that you mention are largely rubbish. I couldn’t care less about a shareware version of the original Pong just as I’m sure you could care less about 95% of the other thousands of titles available for the PC but not Mac. Case in point. One of my first business purchases was several modules of Great Plains accounting that was recommended numerous times in print and by so called “professionals”. I was stupid enough to spend over $15k in that horrible piece of code. I stuck with it for years (at several hundred dollars a year for support & updates) till they informed me that they were discontinuing Mac support. Turned out most Mac users were smart enough not to support that terrible piece of code so I turned to $195 copy of MYOB which is 100% better, and about 1000% more userfriendly. Since then, I scrutinized my purchases MUCH more closely and got hands on experience before purchase no matter what the cost. Point is, there is NO loss to the Mac Community for the several thousand titles not available to the Mac OS. On the business side, I’ve never been able to NOT find a piece of software that I’ve needed for the Mac. I will sadly admit that there have been times that I’ve walked through the game section in a computer store and wished I could have tried a few of the titles, but that’s the only time I’ve wished for PC titles, but I’ve got an optical full (1.5 gigs) of games and countless CDROMs that I don’t have time for so this is of little importance. Besides, I’ve played FA/18 Hornet on my 3 - 20” monitor workstation knowing a PC could never do that. with 1 20” monitor a a forward view and the other 2 monitors as side views, that’s as close to virtual reality as you’re gonna get in a home PC for quite some time... and I’ve been doing it for years. =)

>> "Watch a movie? If a computer is in a movie, chances are it's a Mac."

> If you're referring to a computer being used to create animation and other special effects, it's more likely to be something like
> a Silicon Graphics workstation or other more specialized graphics terminal.

I meant exactly what I typed “a computer IN a movie”. I’ll admit that it’s of little importance, but just the mere fact that 9 times out of ten when a computer is in a scene and it’s a Mac means that the platform earns more respect than given by Keith & the gumby.

I made my point as far CGI goes in my previous post. Most, if not all, special effects companies have Macs in their arsenal. Considering a mini array of 4 or more Macs can crunch numbers in the GigaFLOPS range and cost a fraction of cost of an SGI Onyx 2 or even an Octane, gives the Mac high importance in ADR. A high placed employee at ILM even admits that Macs were used in the special effects to the Special Edition of Star Wars even though ILM has a strict contract with SGI, and every one within ILM admits that the word “Macintosh” is rarely used in conversation in ILM.


> In my opinion the choice of a MS Windows system or a Mac comes down largely to personal choice.

True... very true!!

>However, if you want the flexibility of running the software of your choice, the MS Windows system is (perhaps sadly) the obvious choice.

Very VERY UNTRUE!

Cheers,

Alan

AS SEEN IN: Software announcement:

Robin,
1) The home button looks like a house (did the software writters for hypercard design the first houses?)
2) Most of the world's computer users use IBM's or IBM compatible computers. (that's why there is currently no mac software!)
3) The reason fornumber 2 is apple's marketing department's fault. They blew it in the mac's infancy by noy allowing other computure makers and software writters to "clone" the mac interface (OS); therefore, mac's dwindled while IBM's and windows rocked to their current throne over the world's computer market.

You shouldn't slam Philip's marketing group when they have a new hotseller; especially when your fighting for apple (whose sales and marketing division wreckerd the company)

The reason I don't have a MAC is due to there true lack of compatability, functionality, and flexability. Yes, the interface is a breeze to use, but onb the other hand there is barely any software (comparativly speaking), the issue of compatability with third-party hardware arrises often (as with Pronto), and to be down right honest the mac can't do in a lifetime half of what my 400 Mhz Pentium II can do in a heatbeat (not just because of speed, sometimes things just can't be customized or tweaked on a mac)!!!

PS (sorry for the broad generalizations)

A Windows User: Actually, the Mac's hardware is MUCH better than a PC's hardware, even before the G3 came out. The Mac has a really nice platform design, while the PC has suffered years and years of the digital equivalent of duct taping and bailing wiring and electrical taping added hardware features. It's a literal mess. As for software, a Mac running BeOS would run circles around ANY and I mean ANY WIntel system. Of course, if you ran Winders on an Alpha, it's a slightly closer match.

It does not matter what is better (see BETA vs VHS). Alpha is a great chip too, but nobody wants it (AutoCad dropped supporting Alpha NT).

By the way I just read an article that SGI is hurting pretty bad, shares went from $46 to $8. They are now planning to release a High-End Windows NT workstation.

I think using the Pronto (which is a relatively small market to begin with is the wrong place to start your campaign to bring Mac demand back).