I've got an MX-500, but I'm thinking of buying a OFA remote to learn some "high-frequency" pioneer codes. I've got the CCF file for my TV, but I don't have a listing of the discrete codes for my set.

From reading about JP1, it looks like you need to know the hex codes. Is there a tool that will take a CCF file and dump them into a HEX format (so I could load them manually with the IR program).

Help or Tips is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Jack,

You don't really need to know or use anything about the hex. There's a "program" called ccf2efc that opens a pronto ccf and displays the information contained in the hex codes in ueic form. That's all you need for the JP-1 remote. It'll usnually lay it out as protocol, device(s), and OBC's and many times list the EFC value as well. With that, you can can use a spreadsheet to see if there's a preformatted ueic device setup code from devices.xls. If not, you can use the JP-1 programs KM and IR to make and input a new device upgrade code for the ueic remote. That'll issue the signal your MX-500 can learn.
You can get all the utilities free at Jp-1. I'd suggest NOT asking questions at the JP-1 group, especially if you tell them all you want to use JP-1 for is to use it to program your MX-500. Those help questions generally go ignored. The consensus is we don't mind helping someone who is actually going to USE their JP-1 remotes; and if you need help with your MX-500, then go ask the bozo's who made your mx-500 how to get what you need. If you do mention it's just to program your mx-500, be prepared to figure JP-1 out on your own, I for one, since I now know your motives, will be one who will ignore your posts.
I don't mind helping someone who is using their uiec remote as a daily user, but I don't like being USED by someone when the ulterior motive is just to suck my time and efforts to work their OTHER remote. I feel that that support should come from the morons that designed and markets that other remote, not a user group set up and supported by people who spent a lot of time and effort to make things possible for ueic remotes. For most of the help you may need, ask a MX-500 user group, or the mfr.
I'm sorry if this sounds crass but I've really gotten tired of people just USING the Jp-1 group for non-JP-1 motives. That includes all the people looking for device setup codes, advance codes,etc. at JP-1 when they should be asking those at other forums, like here at remote central, the pronto user's group, the MX-500 user'sgroup, etc.

Jim

Now for a differing opinion ...

I don't really understand why you'd want an expensive remote that doesn't have direct PC programability, nor why you would prefer the physical design of the MX-500 to the good button layout and tactile feedback of many of the OFA remotes (custom button labels would be nice, but not at those costs), BUT if you want to get a JP1 cable and use it to help program your MX-500 and you need to ask some questions in the JP1 group, go ahead. I might even answer some of them (though my usual answer about Pioneer consists of just the crude basics combined with the statement that Rob is the one who really understands the Pioneer stuff). If Jim doesn't want to help, I assume he can ignore your posts in the JP1 group.

If you have a CCF file, you should try the ccf2efc program. If it fails, that means the CCF file is in too new of format for ccf2efc. There is a VERY BIG Pronto Edit program you can download that can read a new CCF file and rewrite it as an old one that ccf2efc can read.

You might find it easier to look for your TV in the devices folder of the JP1 group. If you find it there, most of the work of setting it up for JP1 has already been done.

As the leader of the JP1 group, I can say that I don't mind helping people program their JP1 remotes, even if they are just going to use them to program an MX500, but I do chose to ignore posts from people who make no effort to figure the stuff out themselves and just want us to do all the work for them.

As for why someone would want the MX500 over other remotes, I can understand this completely, and in fact I have often urged the folks at UEI and OFA to consider making their own, JP1 compatible, remote to compete with the MX500.

The MX500 remote has buttons for most of the regular functions, such as numbers, transport, etc (although the navigation thumbpad leaves alot to be desired - and funnily enough, it looks like OFA was inspired by this nasty button for their URC-8910 remote). It then has an LCD screen (which is NOT a touch screen), that is surrounded by ten unlabelled buttons. When you start using the remote, these 10 buttons are your device buttons, which you can re-label yourself with names like "TIVO" and "RPLAY" (only 5 digits I'm afraid). Once you select a device, these 10 buttons then become "extra" buttons for all of those less common functions. There is a PAGE button that let's you scroll to a 2nd page of extra buttons if they are needed, so you can stash those functions that you very rarely need, but want to have around here.

The MX500 does have built in setup codes, but for the most part they suck, so people generally use learning to program the remote, which is a little tedious but it does get the job done. Without the "advanced codes" feature that UEI remotes are famous for, there is no way to generate discrete codes on this remote, which is why many MX500 owners also have a UEI remote around.

As for the MX500 being hooked up to your PC, some people have developed a device that uses the remote's "clone" feature (ie, the feature that lets you clone one MX500 to another) to make PC backups of the data, which you can then edit. I know nothing mroe than that about it, but you can get more info at http://www.irclone.com/

Rob
http://www.hifi-remote.com

And just HOW is that not using a JP1 device, no matter WHAT the end result it is for? To control a TV or another remote. It is still a use for a JP1 remote, like it or not. And it seems you don't. It seems that you are so in love with your $25 remotes and their JP1 capabilties as a cheap remote, that your ignore the use of them to upgrade other remotes. Either that or you are just plain insulted by it. Which is stupid, as it's nothing more than the same thing, but just another use for it. In fact it's in the same mindset as why the JP1 stuff became so popular, to tweak and improve, and it's nothing more than a extension of that. You act like it's going to endanger you and your precious remote in some way, that's BS. Sure someone asking you do do all the work is one thing, but asking for informed help is another thing. And acting like a snob, is another!


This message was edited by Johnla on 01/01/03 16:48.29.

My point is that so many of these MX-500 "lovers" only want JP-1/ueic to provide functions that they can't otherwise get from their MX-500, the MFR of the MX-500,or a MX-500 suppoort group. They find out their MX-500 isn't quite what they thought for the price they paid. So, they resort to using a ueic and JP-1 to "fix" the MX-500's shortfalling. Then the problem is they 1. Ask a million questions about using JP-1 because they just want to take to take the EASY way out and not bother to read any of the Read-Me documents, or 2. Want the group members to GIVE them ready made files to load without searching the HUGE database we have stored there (Laziness again) and occupy OUR time and efforts just so they can get ONE damned stupid function on their remote. Then once they get it, they FORGET everything they were told, and stuff the remote in a drawer; only to buy another piece of equipment down the road and ask the SAME damn questions because they DIDN'T want to LEARN the process the first time around anyway just to get ONE stupid function they JUST GOTTA have.
They NEVER give the group ANYTHING back for the time and effort the group spent usually doing the work for THEM, just to get them off the message board. How many strictly MX-500 users ever posted a device upgrade, or forwarded Rob a missing advance code? Hmmmmm, how about NONE. How many posted a device upgrade for others in the group? NONE. Just take TIME and EFFORT from the group members to set up their remote that will get just one or a couple button presses in it's lifetime.
Sorry, but if I'm gonna go thru all that effort to help someone with his JP-1 remote, it better be for more than just one damed function for his overpriced and ability lacking MX-500. Again, this should be done thru an MX-500 user's support group. A few of THEIR members should become ueic "experts" to help the rest of the MX-500's find workarounds for their remotes. That's a LOT BETTER than 1000 MX-500 users asking the same STUPID questions and wanting so much from the JP-1 group just to get one or a couple button functions. OVER and OVER we get the same questions because they are TOO LAZY to 1. read the documentation posted there, search the files, and at least make a half-ass attempt to either learn or figure it out on their own.
"We" already provided the tools and documentation, but MX-500 owners appear to be NOTORIOUS for looking for the easy, quick, way out. And for what? So they can make their ueic remotes better? Hell no, so they can make up for the shortcomings of their MX-500.
That's like the ueic learning model remote owner being TOO LAZY to use the tools provided--they want someone else to do the work and hand it to them on a silver platter. Sorry, but I got better things to do than waste my time with helping lazy, egocentric people who think the world revolves around them. I'd rather help someone who for some reason CAN'T do something on their own, rather than someone who is just TOO LAZY to even bother trying.
Jim

They ask more or less the SAME questions that anyone asks the first time they try out doing JP1 stuff, the only difference is, they want to control a remote, and not a device like a TV, DVD, or VCR. I see just as many stupid questions asked in yahoo in JP1, by those who just want to do JP1 on the cheap,(lazy)as I do others. You seem to be one of the "egocentric people" people that you so despise. The way you talk about your beloved JP1 remote, and with the way you look down at other remotes. As for "shortfalling" of brands. For the majority of the JP1 remotes that are out there, they would be crap if you could not hack into them with the JP1 stuff. Look at them, take away the JP1 and they are just garbage for the most part. That is why they cost what they do. But they can be hacked, and that's what adds more value, to the people that wish, and can do so. There are just as many lazy people that want to "do" JP1 stuff, with only the JP1 remote itself, as there are those who wish to use it as a way to do things to another remote. Yet you say lazy is worse if you wish to use it as a means to do things with another brands remote. Lazy is lazy! No matter if you use it as a tool with another brand, or are just to lazy to look up a brand device to use it with a JP1 remote in it's own. You have a hack for your "kind" of remotes, others do IF they use your lind in the middle, and that upsets you. Why is beyond me. They both are after the same end result, to make what they have more usefull. If the IRCLONE program ends up working as they hope, then the MX-500 people will have their "own" hack to play with. And if may even end up way better than what the JP1 stuff can do. But you know what, it will still come back to it in some ways. either via conversions of codes or whatever. The main advantage that OFA/UEI has, is their code database, and that it has been made public. And that on some of their remotes you have a way "JP1" to do things with them, that THEY never intended for you to do. It was put there so they could do updates, as they did for me years ago when I sent in a 8090 for them to "update" to get new codes, back way before the JP1 stuff was out in the public. That was part of the selling point back then, that they would always add new codes for you, if you needed them. The plug and circuit was put their so OFA/UEI could do that for upgrading, not so that the consumer could. Take that away from them, and you would not have much. Back then the 8090 was nice, because it came with the RF/IR repeater. Which back then was something. And many still like that feature, in fact I could hack out the RF "puck" from my old 8090, and put it in my 15-2116, and end up with the yet to sell 15-2117. Big deal, I don't even care. But you know what, I still think it's cool, that it can even be done. That 8090, is a very old remote. Yet you can still do things like that with it, pirate the parts from it to a newer one. And Still end up with a 8090 that would do IR, even after you swiped the RF out of it. But you know what else, I don't think that the 15-2116/17 you just "made" by by a RF puck from it, ends up being any better than the 8090 was/is, that you took it from. But I also think soon, all real upper mainstream universal remotes will end up having some sort of PC programming for them right off the self in the future, then you JP1 guys can go back to being happy again. Because no matter what you can do with the current JP1 remotes, they are anything but upper end mainstream remotes. They are low end, BUT they can be hacked, and that's where their value is. Even the Kameleon, as nice as it looks, is a low end device. But it looks that it might be worth the $60 if you want the "eye candy" it has, but not much more than that. But as long as they all stay low priced to buy. That is not a bad thing, as long as you can hack them.

I was determined to stay out of this thread but what the hell......

Even though I don't agree with JamesG's opinion, he has the right not to help anyone if he feels like it. I think that's the whole point of a discussion board, its not a job, its by users for users, when they have time and feel like it. That is why I'll give another shameless plug for Rob, JohnF, et al. for all their tireless work. I been a member of JP1 for 2 years and haven't posted a single file (not that I haven't tried but who needs a third upgrade posted for the same receiver and so on). I also haven't posted questions without reading the FAQs and so on.

I do, however, have a problem with someone calling our UEIC remotes "low end". Don't mistake low cost with low end. The UEIC remotes are good remotes that have been made great with the hacking efforts of JP1. No other remotes have this kind of support and fandom. That is why many retailers sell the MX-500 as a package with a UEIC remote and cable (BlueDo for instance). I found nothing that these remotes can't control and yet for 5 times as much, the MX-500 runs into roadblocks and needs one of these poor "low end" remotes to hurdle it. I have no problem spending money, but I want to get something for what I spend.

I just bought my third DVD player this weekend. Its a JVC-S400 (cheap model for bedroom). Put the supplied batteries in the remote, learned one signal to my RS 15-1994, loaded IR and now I have all the protocol info, found the upgrade code, tested out all the buttons, used advanced codes (from http://www.hifi-remote.com) to fix or move some buttons around. Saved all that info to a file, and done. Total time, under 10 minutes. Then took the batteries out of the remote and opened the remote drawer and chucked the JVC remote into it with all the other discarded ones (I actually have a drawer just for unused remotes and counted them and there were 19). Oh.....by the way, when I was counting them I picked up my MX-500. I breifly lamented spending $150 for this remote and promtly put it back in the discard drawer where it belongs. Other than the custom labeled buttons, this remote has nothing on the RS-2116 (IMHO).

Some days I think about opening an account on Ebay and selling the MX-500, but decide against it as I like to be reminded whenever I open that drawer how much I enjoy the JP1 remotes.

-------------------------------------------------
Your opinions may be different and I respect that, just as long as you understand I am right.

I don't care how much you love them, they are low end. Take away the JP1, and more than 1/2 of you would not be playing with them or own them. Their value is in the "hack ability" that they have, which make them, in a sense worth more than what they sell for. I have both a 8090 OFA and a Rat Shack 2116, and a MX-700. Two Sonys, one a AV2000 and the other is a AV2100. And numerous other OLD RS units. And yes the OFA and RS-2116 are low end units compaired to the others. They all have their good points, and the OFA and RS good points are the JP1, and low price. Take away the JP1, and they are no better than the learning remotes that come with most TVs and VCRs. With the JP1 they are better.

As for how important is custom labeled buttons, and LCD icons, VERY! Anyone can pick up my M-700 or my Sonys and figure out what button or icon will do what. The same can NOT be said for either my OFA 8090 or my RS-2116, that has been tweaked with help of JP1. Sure I know what button will do what, but others don't unless I tell them. The Sonys and the MX-700 can tell them when they look at the LCD screens, what will do what.

I can't just sit here and ignore this any longer.

Jim? LIGHTEN UP! What in the world could make you go off with such invective. Your first post started out helpful and informative and one could see you getting madder and madder as you wrote it.

I've been bailed out several times by the JP1 group and truly appreciate it. Rob, Jim and John have been extremely helpful at times. I've also posted a couple of time and gotten no answers. No biggie. I assumed that no one had an answer to the query. I'm not a hacker, know no programming, and often don't understand what they're talking about. I do read everything over there and have learned a great deal. Do I feel that I'm out of the loop or not one of the chosen ones at JP1.....No!

I own a JP1 modified Cinema 7, a JP1 modified 6012, an 8811 and I now use a 2116 (the best yet). I nearly bought the MX-500 but finally ruled it out based on the posts over on that forum.

That said I really don't understand the distinction between using JP1 to program an everyday URC remote or programming a URC remote so that an MX-500 can be improved. What possible difference could that make? If, in the process of using JP1, the user decides that the URC remote is better than the MX-500 they'll dump the MX-500 on eBay and you've gotten a convert.

And, as is noted above, there's always the option of not responding to the query.

JMO, Dan

all,
Your all missing the point. There is a difference between the people who are using their ueic remotes with JP-1 on a regular basis, vs. the MX-500 owners who are just using JP-1 to get one function. Included in with the MX-500 users are those with ueic remotes and DON'T have any intentions of actually using JP-1.
That difference is the "real" JP-1 users actually TRY to understand the PROCESS of JP-1. The majority of the MX-500 & Non-JP-1 UEIC users DON'T want to understand the process at all, they want the shortest, easiest, and quickest way to get that one function that they just gotta have.
So, those MX-500 (also please read non-JP-1 ueic users) DON'T bother to take the time and effort to read the readme's, do file searches, do thread searches, etc. to UNDERSTAND the process, they typically just want someone to HAND them (in a post with a direct link to the file they need, and the SHORT instructions for the INSTALL all directed specifically TO THEM. SO they clutter the message board with a question that was 1. thoroughly covered in the documentation posted, 2. answered 1000 times in posts in the past. It's the laziness I detest.
How many times has a person with a learning ueic remote asked if there's a device code for xxx device? Many times they say they have a learner but learning from their oem's is their "last resort". Gee whiz, the tools were developed and the documentation posted where this should be a 1st resort, not the last. Asking questions should be THE LAST resort, and only after doing as thorough a search as possible.
How many times has someone asked for a certain discrete code? thousands!!!!. How many times have I had to sit and type:
1. Check the pronto files for your device in a ccf file. If it's listed there, you can use ccf2efc to convert the file to ueic format.
2. check the device setup code files at www.hifi-remote.com, click on the advance codes link found at the bottom ov every page to navigate there.
3. check the files area here and see if someone has written a device upgrade for your device, and the file includes the ones you want.
4. You can try the search method: set your remote the device button and setup code that works most of the functions for your device. Press P-E-F-C where EFC is from 000-255 and see if the function you want works. If you find one (and/or others you want), either make a device upgrade including them with KM, Copy and paste the resultant device upgrade code and/or protocol upgrade (if KM posts one) into the appropriate areas in IR, change the device button to the new upgrade device setup code assignment you made in KM, and "Upload to Remote". Alternatively, use the Keymove function in IR to assign the found efc values to buttons as you'd like. If it's a combo code, be shure to enter the 2-Byte commands that KM reports on the functions tab when you entered the efc there into IR and select "Hx cmd" radio button.

Now, just how many times should I or anyone else have to sit here and type those same instructions when they've already been typed 1000 times by me, rob, jon, John, Mark, etc.? The sad part is they're covered in the readme's already; and the poster was just TOO LAZY to bother taking 1/2 hour to read them.

Since the MX-500 guy typically only wants ONE or just a couple functions, he's especially notorious for asking questions without reading the readmes and other documentation provided. What the heck, he doesn't NEED to understand the JP-1 process, he just needs the uiec remote to issue one stinkin command for his remote to learn; then it gets stuffed in a drawer, given away, or sold on ebay. IF he manages to get someone to HAND him a really simple process to get his ueic remote and learned to his MX-500; and 6 months down the road he buys another device and needs yet another command to teach to the MX-500, He'll then go back to JP-1 and ask for the quick, easy, NO-WORK method again, and re-ask how to use it because he didn't bother to LEARN the JP-1 process the first time around. Now we're answereing his exact same questions a second time.
It's one thing to ask questions because you just simply don't understand---IF the questions are designed to INCREASE your knowledge of the process. It's entirely different if it's just to suck the answers to SAVE YOU the time and effort of READING and DIGESTING the process for the quick and easy fix for one simple command. I don't mind helping someone UNDERSTAND something that's unclear to them. I DO mind trying to help someone who was simply TOO LAZY to bother understanding and reading the documentation provided.
MANY people took the TIME and EXERTED the effort to sit down and PROVIDE the documentation, the tools, etc. for the group's benefit. WHY should they, or anyone else, have to be bothered with questions that were already well covered in the documents, PURELY because some clown with a MX-500 is TOO LAZY to read them, NDERSTAND the process, and just answer questions to CLARIFY a confusing issue? I think it's a slap in the face to the ones that took that time and exerted the effort to provide them.
Isn't it overall BETTER for the GROUP if our tool builders and experts don't have to take their time from CONSTRUCTION and BUG FIXES to answer questions because someone is too lazy to read the documents already provided? How many people have asked for a certain extender, or protocol, and Jon, Rob, or John are simply so swamped with uneccesary questions that they can't devote time to those more pressing needs?
How many times has John said he'd like to upgrade his 7800 and 1994 extenders to be like his best one for the xxxxx, but he just doesn't have time. I've seen it over and over. Why doesn't he have the time? Because he is FORCED to WASTE too much of his time with RE-answering the same questions over and over again, and ALL of those were covered in the varios documentation posted at the site, and repeatedly re-spelled out 1000 times before to someone else who asked the very same question earlier that day, or yesterday, or last week. One reason I answer so many is an attempt to give John, Jon, and Rob MORE time to devote to more pressing issues. But that still isn't enough because 2 hrs later another lazy "user" comes along and asks the same dang question. Just how long should we put up with that? Just how many times should we "allow" the documenters to be insulted because of LAZY people?
OK, I focused on the MX-500 people and the non-JP-1 but ueic remote users because history has shown that THESE people are particularly the ones that FAIL to read the documentation, or use the TOOLS provided. They just want the quick and easy fix for their problem and want SOMEONE ELSE to do the work FOR THEM. Afterall, they just NEED one particular function.
Does just needing one particular function for a MX-500 JUSTIFY being too lazy to READ and UNDERSTAND the process? Personally, I don't think so.

Jim

. . .

A few too many :(


No. I'm not forced to answer them and you're not forced to answer them. Writing short answers to JP1 questions doesn't take away from the time I would have for major JP1 projects.

I can write short answers while waiting for compiles at work, in between nagging my sons to do their homework (etc.) at home, and in other odd moments.

Making progress on extenders requires serious quiet time at home when I can really focus on the whole complex of interacting factors necessary to make an extender both function and fit in an environment where ordinary debugging methods aren't possible. Most of my time at home, I need to focus primarily on my sons.

My compile just finished, bye

SNIP!

This is what he asked for. Then you went on a rant, and went ballistic. That is what started all the BS.

"From reading about JP1, it looks like you need to know the hex codes. Is there a tool that will take a CCF file and dump them into a HEX format (so I could load them manually with the IR program)."

It was a simple request, where all he asked for was about converting CCF files to HEX format, all that was needed was to tell him what he needed. He did NOT ask anyone to convert the files for him, just if there was a program to do so.

And I'd just about bet, if he never would have mentioned a MX-500 as his goal. You would have just answered without the rant.

Johnla,
Gee, I think I answered his question in the first post. Told him what he needed (ccf2efc), where (JP-1 files), and that the ccf2efc would decode the ccf file in ueic format, and he DIDN'T have to be concerened AT ALL about the hex codes.
I further suggested that he NOT post questions at JP-1 especially if he was going to mention he needed to use JP-1 to get one lousy function for his MX-500. I did that because I've seen over and over that those questions tend to be ignored, not just by me, but almost all the others. Therefore, IF he was going to use JP-1 to do it, he better be prepared to wing it on his own---i.e, READ and DIGEST the documentation. I thought I was actually doing him a favor. At least he knew NOT to even mention the MX-500 at JP-1 and hope to sneek his questions through. That's easy enuff to do, just use a different username and email address when you register at JP-1. I also warned him that if I saw a post that I recognized from him, I would ignore it since I knew his intent. I don't have to help anyone I so choosenot to. However, by being a little "devious" he might con someone else to answer his questions.
The original poster DID NOT come back with a reply, no complaints about what I said, or my attitude; it was several other OUTSIDERS that jumped in chastising my opinion and attitude. The "rant and rave" didn't start untill those others made their attack. First it was someone calling ueic remotes "low-end", then it went further about differences between actual ueic remote users vs those who use JP-1 for just one function.
Personally I don't care if ANY MX-500 uses a ueic remote, JP-1, and the tools, they are all freely available to anyone who wants them FREE. But that includes the documentation too. If they want to use JP-1 for their MX-500, fine, great, just don't try to take the LAZY way out by not even making a half-ass attempt to UNDERSTAND the process, and don't post a ton of posts and questions looking for someone to HAND you a 2 minute fix for your MX-500. And don't ask a bunch of questions because you were too damned lazy to bother to read the docs.
Good grief, I spent almost 2 hrs today using Yahoo messenger to write a device upgrade he needed because he didn't have excel. I've got several hours more work lined up doing a one-on-one walkthrough for KM and IR. He made a TON of mistakes because he had an old copy of KM (5.15) which is deplete of the readme's. I did a file transfer and sent him an unzipped copy of KM 7.09, and the two readme's. He's getting IR3.11a tonite; that'll get him up-to-date with the programs.
The differnce here is wants to learn the process; he wants to be able to do his stuff on his own. He just needs a little personal attention to put it all together. I don't mind helping a guy out like that. I don't mind spending the HOURS walking him thru step-by-step. Why? Because I know he'll learn the process and won't post crazy questions that John or Jon, etc will have to answer next week.
This isn't the first guy I've walked thru JP-1, there's a half-dozen others. If I was a lazy bastard, The easy way out (for me) would have been just write the KM upgrade myself, uploaded to my 1994 (same as he's using), save the IR dump, and send it to him via yahoo messenger. I'd have been done with him in 10 minutes or less. Would he have learned how to do the dss upgrade he needed? nope. another 10 min. would have fixed that too. Then what? keep making upgrades , saving dumps and sending them to him? Heck no. He isn't lazy and wants to learn. He wants to become self-sufficient and not rely on someone else down the road. He DOESN'T want the quick and easy way out. He's not an egocentric leech who things the world revolves around him, his problems, and everyone else is somehow required to fix his problem.
Is he or any of the others I've walked thru leeches? Nope, they asked for help with LEARNING, and that's an admirable trait. That's all I care to spend on this topic. I have three remotes I need to learn and three device upgrades I need to make for a guy that mailed me his oem remotes. He doesn't have excel or a learning remote. There aren't any files at RC pronto files or JP-1 devices files, so this was his best alternative. yeah, the wife asked why there were three new remotes laying on my desk. 1st time? Nah, received and mailed two to Louisiana, one to Vermont, and these three are from/go to Ohio. I think I've had more remotes come and go than my local wal-mart.;)
Jim

No, the rant and rave was started by you, in your answer to the original question.

But you can pat yourself on the back, for how you help those who YOU deem worthy of it.