From what I've seen, it's only receivers which support more than
one remote ID use bits 39 and 40. For those which support one
remote ID (ID1) these are always set to 0.

I don't think the 4306 supports more than one remote ID. This
probably explains why the IR docs for receivers that do, don't
have the decimal next to them as Denon would have to say
something like..

Decimal 153 - Band FM for remote ID1, for remote ID2 add
1024, for remote ID3 add 2048 and for remote ID 4 add 3072.

What I'll look at doing is adding the option to enter as binary
only when the remote ID is set to 1, this should cover it.

I haven't tested with Vista as I don't have it.

I've done some more tests since posting before and on my
XP3200 this only takes 100ms and not 300ms as I'd stated
before. However on one occasion I saw it take 900ms. Very
odd.

As I said before PM me your e-mail and I'll send you another
version.

Some days nothing works!! Hotmail is blocking the attachment as it deems the executable file "unsafe." I'm trying to figure out how to bypass that block....

SUCCESS, Rob! That seems to work. Great thanks for the fix.

i tried out your program and it works like a charm - much thanks

I don't.

I forget where I got the frequency from for Denon-K. Maybe I used a generic Kaseikyo spec, maybe I averaged a few learned samples.

IR receivers aren't very picky about frequency. Almost none are bothered by a 5% error in frequency. Most aren't bothered by 10%.


Learning remotes aren't very good at detecting the real frequency of the signal. Prontos seem a little worse than average at that and NG Prontos worse than the older models.

I wouldn't take one (or even a few) learned signals as strong evidence of the frequency. Fortunately, as I explained above, it isn't so important to get the frequency right anyway.

Rob, your program seems to run just fine on Vista, and the new version (with I presume the longer delay you discussed) seems to work perfectly.

I have a question about Denon Kaseikyo documentation and the way Zone/Device & Remote ID define Genre1 & Genre2. I had assumed Remote ID was always 1 if you weren't operating multiple components that use the same code set, but I obviously don't understand the role of the Remote ID parameter. Sorry for my ignorance if this is a really dumb question.

For reference, if necessary, my documentation is [Link: usa.denon.com])

There is a consistent pattern wherein a page of commands for each zone is followed by one or pages of more extensive discrete commands for that zone. The first page uses a Genre2 value that corresponds to Remote ID=1 in "Denon Kaseikyo Pronto Hex Generator." But the next set of commands for that same zone uses a Genre2 value that corresponds to Remote ID=2. I was using "Override Genre/ID" to apply the correct Genre2 value until I realized that changing the Remote ID had the same effect.

To summarize, here's the pattern:
-----Main Zone Commands pg.1 uses Remote ID1
--------Main Zone Commands ppg. 2+ use Remote ID 2
-----Zone 2 Commands pg. 1 uses Remote ID1
--------Zone 2 Commands ppg. 2+ use Remote ID2
....and so on for the remaining zones.....

So is the Remote ID essentially just an extension that enlarges the available command set, completely unrelated to the notion of a value that associates a remote command set to a particular component (so you could operate two of the same device, for example)? And completely unrelated to other parameters such as zone and device?

Again, sorry for the long-winded asking of what might be a simple question, but I just want to understand the Remote ID and its role.

Yes, I increased the max delay to 5 seconds! Will leave like that in all future versions.


As I understand it that's the idea.

I'm no expert on this. From looking about over the last week or so it seems that supporting multiple remote ID's seems to be a new thing in Denon receivers. My old 3805 didn't support more than one ID and only uses Sharp codes. It looks like the 06 models still only support one remote ID, but some extra features on top of those controlled using the Sharp code were added - these used the Kaseikyo codes. I don't know about the 07 models, but all upper end of the 08 models seem to support multiple remote ID's.

The codes when using remote ID's 2-4 are all Kaseikyo. Maybe they will ditch the Sharp codes all together a few more generations down the line.


Page 8 and the top two lines of page 9 are for remote ID 1 only. You should use these together with the Sharp codes (using my CCF template or if you prefer there is a Sharp code generator on RC) on the first few pages for remote ID 1.

The remainder of page 9 and all the way through to page 11 are for remote ID's 2-4 using Kaseikyo codes only. There's no reason why you couldn't set your receiver (preamp in this case) to remote ID 2 and just use the Kaseikyo codes if you prefer.


Yes I think you're missing at the top of where a new table starts it states either Remote ID Set 1 or Remote ID Set 2-4.

Genre 2 is the same for ID2, ID3 and ID4. However what sets these apart is bits 39 and 40.


Phew... this is getting confusing :-/

The commands available for Remote ID's 2-4 are the same. They use the same device number, same sub device number but in decimal ALL POWER ON is function 1026 for remote ID2, function 2050 (1026+1024) for remote ID 3 and 3074 (1026 + 2048) for remote ID3.

If you're receiver is set to respond to remote ID3 it will only respond (for the main zone) to device 4, sub device 2 and functions between 2048 and 3071.

Does this help?


Basically remote ID allows you to have two Denon receivers in the same room and the remotes not clashing with one another.

Now can you help me??

There is an error in the Denon documentation for the "XM" device. The binary implies that it should be K7-5 (device 7, sub device 5), when it actually lists it as K4-5. This error is present on the docs (that I've seen) for all receivers that support the "XM" device.

The (backwards) binary for K7-5 is 1110 1010.

The (backwards) binary for K4-5 is 0010 1010.

Are you able to test this? At the moment my program sets this to K7-5 as per the binary, but this could be wrong...?

Okay, that makes SO much more sense. I was looking at them as a complete, continuous set of codes, where in fact they are ALTERNATE sets of codes. It looks like the Remote1 set is the more common, general use commands, while the Remote2 has all that AND an extensive set of discrete function codes.


Yes, it helps a lot Rob. I really appreciate your help with this. So basically, if I want to use one of the more extensive codes sets, I should tell my preamp to use Remote ID2, for example, and stick to those codes.

I think you've helped a lot of people, because I was searching for days to resolve this and just kept finding more and more people asking essentially the same question but never getting a really clear answer or actual solution.


My documentation (for the AVP) does indeed list the XM device as K7-5. (pg. 23) with appropriate backwards binary of 1110 1010. What exactly should I test? I don't have an XM tuner attached, so I haven't been putting in XM codes aside from the basic input select option. Should I put some in and just see if the AVP appears to get the right XM commands (assuming it's not smart enough to know there's no XM tuner...)? I'm happy to try to help if I can get clear on what I should do....

It's very easy to miss the heading at the top of the table. I did it at first.


Yes an alternate and much better structured set of codes.


I must admit I haven't studied what each code set offers in detail, but I wouldn't have thought there was anything that remote ID's 2-4 offered that remote ID 1 didn't? However if I was configuring my Pronto from the ground up, I'd probably use ID2 with Kaseiko codes only, but I have 80% of what I want already done in Sharp codes from my 3805.


That's what I found. I started converting a few codes by hand, but thought "hold on, I can make this easier" :)


Yes I did notice at the top of page 23 it says K7-5, but look at the table on page 7, this is where the conflict of info is.


I think just try any (or a number of) codes to see if it does anything. Even just to give an error message saying "No XM Tuner Attached". That would prove if we have the correct device number (genre1).

Still haven't sorted my own Pronto out!! However, I have just submitted update to remote central.

Now supports decimal entry and can create CCF in batch mode (almost) as per John's suggestions.

John - I see what you mean about the panel numbering with Hex2CCF. If the demand is there I could make my program create a .csf and then use compiler from CCF Tools in command line mode to create CCF. Will have to see...

Have also added genre1/2 info for Denon Blu-ray players and the forthcoming video processor. All untested, but if anyone is able to test the Blu-ray player support then that would be great.

Rob.

Impressive work indeed, Rob! You're a godsend to Denon users. I haven't tested the XM Radio functions yet. (I'm a political junkie and it's a primary day!!! Sickening, I know.) But I definitely will tonight....

Thank you again for sharing all your hard work.

I downloaded and tried the new (April 22) version.

Assuming you're right that Denon never documents the "data" value in decimal unless bits 39 and 40 are zero, you covered all the things I suggested.


I doubt anyone will be bothered much by the wrong panel names.

I wish the author of Hex2CCF would either share the source code or fix some things. But otherwise, I think your effort to use the CCF compiler instead wouldn't be justified.

The CCF format should be a big help to anyone using the "Universal Browser" for remotes from Universal Remote Control Inc. The direct paste of Pronto Hex is not available in all versions and is slower to use than a CCF. The numbered buttons should be easy to use in Universal Browser and the panel names should be easy to ignore.

A Pronto user probably would find the Hex2CCF generated file useful only in the case that Denon, or posts in this forum, document function numbers in decimal. Then if you're not immediately sure how/whether certain functions work in your model/configuration, it's easier to test with a Hex2CCF file than to paste individual functions into your main CCF file before knowing what they really do.

Well if this ever does arise then I can always change the program. I have looked at lots of Denon IR docs and typically the highest decimal is about 820.

It would have to be greater than 1023 for the way I've done things to become a problem and you can always create in batch mode or enter the binary to get round the limit I've set.

Rob,

I initially tried testing the XM commands yesterday and got absolutely no response. Upon further exploration this evening, it's clear that the AVP is indeed smart enough to realize there's no XM tuner attached. It doesn't even offer the input, via remote, Source Select knob, or web controller.

Unfortunately, that means I can't confirm whether any of those commands work. Hopefully, someone else who uses XM on a Denon will check it out and report back.

As an aside, I have XM in my car and like it a lot. I'd love to have it in the house, running through the Denon, but they make it a real PITA to move service between devices and, on principle alone, I won't buy pay more for the privilege of listening to it in two different places!
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Again, Rob, I cannot thank you enough for the code generator. I'm happily programming all sorts of discrete functions that were not otherwise available, even on the AVP's native remote. I'm guessing lots of other happy Denon owners are doing the same even as I write....