Your Universal Remote Control Center
RemoteCentral.com
HDTV Reception Forum - View Post
Previous section Next section Previous page Next page Up level
Up level
The following page was printed from RemoteCentral.com:

Login:
Pass:
 
 

Page 1 of 4
Topic:
frustration with chch tv
This thread has 46 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Thursday August 25, 2011 at 01:54
rocket65
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
February 2008
60
When chch tV finally went digital I was initially ecstatic for here in waterloo their analogue signal was pretty grainy and snowy at times so when they fired up their 60 kw signal at uhf 18.1 1100 ft for the most part I had a solid watchable signal but now with their 11 vhf pathetic 6.1 kw signal nothing Why couldn't they have left it the way it was .. who else is allocated to broadcast on 18.1 uhf ? I looked up my address on tv fool and discovered that their erp in my direction dropped from a solid watchable 18.000 to a measly 2.000 no wonder I can.t pick them up anymore . I am recieving higher erp from stations stateside 85 to 115 miles away. it seems to me that american tv stations are glad to share their signals and entice people to watch (more viewers may translate in to greater ad revenue ... why are some canadian stations so damn cheap with their signals am I missing the boat here? a different revenue structure perhaps? I do realize that tv stations can charge a fee for carrying their signal on cable and satellite can they also profit by their terrestrial signals as well?
Michael Robert Bennett
Post 2 made on Thursday August 25, 2011 at 01:59
Bruce H.Campbell
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
January 2007
257
We gotta keep bitchin' at them, I do but numbers help.
XP Pro(HTPCs)Windows 7 workstation and PCLinuxOS as a backup in case M$ doesn't go back to a proper desktop OS.
[Link: avsforum.com]
Post 3 made on Thursday August 25, 2011 at 09:40
mr.eous
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
November 2005
28
Since Global CIII "Paris/Kitchener" (tower actually just south of Ayr) switched on their puny 4kW channel 6 DTV signal this morning, I'm shocked that I can easily receive it on the backside of my UHF antenna + UHF preamp.
Comparatively, ever since CHCH went back to their VHF channel 11 DTV, I can't get it at all, and I even tried scoping out my 2.25 acre property with a VHF broadband antenna, dragging a TV with an extension cord around the yard.
So far I've opted not to bitch to CHCH, but I think I better start complaining, now that channel 6 proves no problem to receive in south Kitchener.
Post 4 made on Thursday August 25, 2011 at 14:15
hd fan
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
March 2006
425
Were you able to get ok a particular analog TV Station before? Was that analogue TV station your intended market?.

If yes on both answers then you should be complaining to the TV station that you are no longer able to get their DTV signal after the switch. Every engineer expects that unfortuanelly there will be "dark" spots (therefore a few household out of service) on the old coverage area with the new digital but like Bruce said the more people calling their attention the faster they will come up with a solution. It happened in the states 2 years ago when they finally shut analog down, some stations went for low VHF but after the first weeks people complaining they realize they had to do something about it and some went back to UHF.

I also lost CHCH but my antenna system is not the perfect one for VHF anyways. Will see what happens with CTV when they flip on ch 9 HDTV next week.
Post 5 made on Thursday August 25, 2011 at 14:42
el gran chico
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
November 2007
124
Re: "who else is allocated to broadcast on 18.1 uhf ?"

TVO in London

Re: "why are some canadian stations so damn cheap with their signals"

Because they are owned by companies that are deeply invested in subscription television. CHCH is owned by Channel Zero which operates a bunch of specialty channels.

Re: "american tv stations are glad to share their signals"

Because a LOT more than 3 or 4 companies are competing for viewers, many with no conflict of interest with cable/satelitte.

It all makes sense from a corporate point of view. It sucks from a viewer point of view. Guess whose side the CRTC and Industry Canada is on??
Post 6 made on Thursday August 25, 2011 at 19:19
NFASTRO
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
October 2006
129
I sent the following email to CHCH. If I ever get a response, I will post. In my case CHCH is actually a bit stronger than before here in North York. However, it is still weak compared to most Buffalo stations.
____________________________________________________________
"It was great to see CHCH convert to digital a couple of weeks. I was hoping that the move to the VHF CH11 would provide greater coverage and improved reception. I am located in North York Ontario.

Initially, reception was slightly improved but now it appears that receiving CH11 digital is spotty at best. I believe transmit power is only around 5 or 6 KW. I strongly believe that you need to at least double this power to get a wider audience. Buffalo and most of the GTA is suffering with fringe reception. By increasing the power to around 20 KW, you may be able to cover Buffalo and all of GTA.

I am requesting here that you apply to CRTC for an increase in power. It is silly that CITY TV and other broadcasters in Buffalo or Rochester are or will be using hundreds of KW while CHCH has decided to go to 5 KW. Today, I can receive most of the Buffalo stations and even some Rochester stations more reliably that CHCH Hamilton."
Post 7 made on Friday August 26, 2011 at 06:14
Daniel Tonks
Wrangler of Remotes
Joined:
Posts:
October 1998
27,901
If I remember correctly, the rough rule of thumb is ATSC requires about 1/10th the power of NTSC to cover the same area (yeah, I know that's not an absolute).

So, for CHCH originally at 325kW, that would mean they should have been looking at around 32kW. Even 20-25kW would have probably been OK.

But 6.1kW? That's just 1.877% of their original power. There's no way they could ever have reasonably expected to cover the same geographic area with that, especially in the troublesome VHF range.

Frankly, even before the change I was unable to get anything usable on analog 11 in Markham... but 18 came in just fine (and I do have a VHF antenna and VHF preamp).
Post 8 made on Friday August 26, 2011 at 09:24
auditorydamage
Junior Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2010
24
On August 25, 2011 at 01:54, rocket65 said...
why are some canadian stations so damn cheap with their signals am I missing the boat here? a different revenue structure perhaps? I do realize that tv stations can charge a fee for carrying their signal on cable and satellite can they also profit by their terrestrial signals as well?

At the moment, broadcasters do not receive carriage fees for OTA signals. You may recall a bizarre "debate" regarding imposition of carriage fees on OTA signals carried by BDUs (cable/satellite/IPTV providers) last year. Since the largest terrestrial private OTA broadcasters are owned by corporations that also own very profitable pay TV providers, and often pay TV channels, it was a Kabuki performance. The CRTC ruled that the OTA broadcasters and BDUs can "negotiate" carriage fees, so at some point the bills of pay TV subscribers will likely go up $5-$10, probably after the economy stabilizes and the threat of people dumping service to save money is reduced.

Private, for-profit OTA broadcasters live and die from advertising sales. Theoretically, the OTA channels owned by BDUs could be subsidized in slow times by the profits from the pay TV operations, and carriage fees could help relatively independent terrestrial broadcasters cover losses from a lack of ad sales, but I'll let you guess how interested the major players are in funding less-profitable divisions at this point in time.

I'm not entirely sure why CHCH would give up clean reception in Toronto; although their primary market is Hamilton and surrounding areas, their movies, all-midday news, and other programming were more of a draw for me than the fluff carried by OMNI 3 CityTV. While Channel Zero does own some digital specialty channels that earn subscription fees, they're not owned by a BDU AFAIK, so ad revenue is still critical for CHCH.
Satisfied owner of a Terk HDTVa. Who needs Rogers or Bell anyway?
Post 9 made on Friday August 26, 2011 at 12:19
hd fan
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
March 2006
425
Have we forgotten the main issue here? Who owns the Radio Communications Spectrum? , The people of Canada in this case. Who elects the officials who rule and decide what to do with that spectrum?, The people of Canada once again. What is ,and should first and "foremost" be, the main objective of any OTA station that is therefore using this Spectrum?. To serve the interest and needs of, guess who once again, The people of Canada.

Freedom is certainly written starting with an F and ending with an M by every person using the english language everywhere in the world but it certainly has a different meaning and is lived differently everywhere in world.

The freedom for the powerful and wealthy to control , benefit and even profit by using the resources that belong to the People of Canada is certainly one of the freedoms that is written the same but it means something completly different.

In my opinion totally unaceptable that the reguator even allows this to happen, CHCH like any other OTA station was issued and consecuently has been authorized over the years to use this valuable resources , in this case to serve the local community (Hamilton and its surroundings), therefore it is in its (CHCH) obligations to continue to fulfill this as a condition to be able to keep using this same resources. They are officially still in testing fase , who knows, maybe the will increase EIRP by Aug 31 deadline (I am naive I know) , but certainly like Daniel pointed out going from 325 kW on ch 11 Analog to barely 6 kW Digital on the same ch is in other words like a good cuban would say "una falta de respeto". As a general rule a digital signal at only 1/10 th of its analogue counterpart should cover fairly the same area, therefore 32 kW should be the value to target.

This issue (regulator allowing this, CHCH doing this) reminds me when a few years ago I had to translate for a friend at a toronto police station due to a parking ticket. My friend's building was doing basement reno (the whole parking is there) as a result they placed notes (and sent letters to tenants) indicating the police had authorized to park outside on the street in certain areas. My friend parked outside and like most tenants got a parking ticket , I gracefully after reading the letter (and beleive me at the time I had already learnt to start reading the fine print first) decided to help him argue it with the police (despite me having an idea what might have happened). Guess what?, the police had indeed issued an authorization to park outside but even for this 20 story building with a 2 or maybe 3 level parking they only authorized a specific section of merely 100 meters of a specific street only(mentioned on the fine print BTW but not very clearly stated , like, I told you but in such a way you did not get it, you know what I mean eh?). And I wonder how can you fit 200 cars (it has 10 aptm per floor) in 100 meters? How come as a police officer writting this letter you did not realized that? How come the building management did not se this? (How come my friend and all 200 car owners did not see it as well BTW). Ultimately like in this case I hold responsible both parties police and building management (CRTC/CHCH) and the canadians affected because in the end the issue is that all behave like the famous long-necked African bird, the ostrich, that simply puts his head under the sand and pretends nothing happens or that is unable to see what is going to happen. But this my friends is the nature of the beast apparently, since this kind of behaviour runs deeply among the canadian population therefore their elected oficials and also business decision makers suffer from the "ostrich sindrome" as well, I guess.

In other words no one cares, as long as the truly free keeps benefiting, then who cares eh?.

I would advice though (despite my comments about canadian freedom, at least this one still starts with F and ends with M , I personally lived one that over 50 years ago , lost almost all its letters, if you catch my drift) to not only petition CHCH and also the CRTC to solve this but also to let your elected officials know about this. OTA viewers are far less than cable/satellite/IPTV combined but they remain an important part of any society, mainly being elderly and pensionee, with a limited income, removing this source of local vital info from them would be for the canadian society the equivalent for a grandson to forget that his gradparents still exist. But heck so I have been told that that also runs deeply among canadians!.

Unbeleivable but sadly true ......
Post 10 made on Saturday August 27, 2011 at 08:08
BluPuk
Junior Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2011
7
Um, I'm pissed. Who can I write to? I was seriously considering cutting the cable in my house - to the TV's anyway, (I hate Rogers) and giving up TSN, etc. But now, I can't believe that the CRTC allows these megalomaniac broadcasters to alienate their customers so. Check out the signal strength of every Canadian channel vs most of the U.S. channels. Therein lies the difference between the two countries. Canadians get NO respect from their government. Why should I pay for TV that forces me to watch commercials?? I should at least get the broadcast for nothing! Anyway, give me e-mails and I'll send off some regular e-mails to these mental midgets. Hope this post doesn't get banned here - I got zapped by the post nazi's over at the "other" site - the Canadian one.....
Post 11 made on Saturday August 27, 2011 at 12:17
Larry Watching TV
Junior Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2010
18
CHCH was coming in fine last night in the north east end of Whitby. I did not make note of the signal level, just the picture was fine with no breakups.
Post 12 made on Saturday August 27, 2011 at 12:57
auditorydamage
Junior Member
Joined:
Posts:
May 2010
24
I reattached the sketchy VHF ear after failing to locate an easily-attached replacement at my favourite surplus store yesterday... and managed to pull in a clear signal from CHCH! Signal strength was close to that I've come to expect from some of the US broadcasters.

Either they cranked their output, or the atmosphere's playing nice.
Satisfied owner of a Terk HDTVa. Who needs Rogers or Bell anyway?
Post 13 made on Saturday August 27, 2011 at 14:32
hd fan
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
March 2006
425
On August 27, 2011 at 08:08, BluPuk said...
Check out the signal strength of every Canadian channel vs most of the U.S. channels. Therein lies the difference between the two countries. Canadians get NO respect from their government.

Well acctually we are still in no position to compare both EIRP levels, oficially our stations are still in testing phase beleive it or not. Coming Sept 1st that is another story. The other thing is, pretty much like with analog over 60 years ago the US TV stations started first therefore its contour had to be protected from every new Canadian station. The same happens now, they started and switched to digital first , 2 years ago, therefore Canadian TV stations are limited on the EIRP levels they can use in other to protect its neighbourgs. We might not like it as TV viewers but that is the way it works and should work. There is no way to stop Radio signals travelling across borders therefore Countries are aware of it and agree on sharing info and act accordingly to avoid interference. Well , in most cases that is.

I juts tried and still I get nothing from ch 11 but even ch 18 hardl yever worked for me since the whole house is in the way. I would not surprise me that they acctually crancked up the TX after receiving so many complaints.
Post 14 made on Saturday August 27, 2011 at 15:12
BluPuk
Junior Member
Joined:
Posts:
August 2011
7
Actually, hd fan I'm glad to hear things may change on Sept. 1. Personally, though, I'll wait and see on that one. At any rate, we as Canadians need to let the CRTC know that we are NOT happy about this. OTA TV is all that separates us from being forced to go to Rogers or to Bell, or whoever. I sent them (and Global, and CHCH) an e-mail. We should all do the same.
Post 15 made on Saturday August 27, 2011 at 18:06
hd fan
Long Time Member
Joined:
Posts:
March 2006
425
TVO, Global , City TV, OMNI's and even Sun TV probably will end up having great signal over the GTA. CTV with its change to ch 9 remains to be seen what happens as most people probably installed a UHF only antenna system. In general the switch over is a positive one because analog reception in the GTA was spotty at best with lots of trouble. Even if they decide not to use subchannels or add extra features (like mobile TV , TV Guide, TV Firmware update, general data) still the improvement in picture and audio quality alone tips the balance on the positive side.

The funny thing about all this is that if OTA TV viewers are far less than cable/satellite/IPTV like is mostly said then a discount coupon program towards the purchase of a coverter box would have not been that expensive at all if targeted for only that sector of the population that needed it but I guess that goes against the freedoms of the rest who despite having cable/satellite still they probably also wanted that coupon eh?. Does any knows how much has the goverment charged (earned as profit) from the sale of the new freed spectrum (all above ch 51) to the wireless operators?. I bet they paid top dollar for that spectrum for their new upcoming LTE networks (read Rogers, Bell and the likes). That extra new money alone would have funded such coupon program like the one they had in the states (although not 100% perfect) specially in a country were there are surpluses rather than deficits thanks to the heavy taxation system.

In any case what is the point on having the CBC in HD free OTA when major events like the Track and Field World championships are only broadcasted online?. And this is from the network that claims to be an olympic network!.
Find in this thread:
Page 1 of 4


Jump to


Protected Feature Before you can reply to a message...
You must first register for a Remote Central user account - it's fast and free! Or, if you already have an account, please login now.

Please read the following: Unsolicited commercial advertisements are absolutely not permitted on this forum. Other private buy & sell messages should be posted to our Marketplace. For information on how to advertise your service or product click here. Remote Central reserves the right to remove or modify any post that is deemed inappropriate.

Hosting Services by ipHouse