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Topic:
frustration with chch tv
This thread has 46 replies. Displaying posts 31 through 45.
Post 31 made on Wednesday August 31, 2011 at 12:59
hd fan
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well not all tuners are created equal but more likely difference in cable length plays a bigger factor. I do not see people complaining about loosing CTV so I guess their coverage is fairly similar to what they had when they were on ch 40 digital specially when most people have UHF only antennas. That is good news.
Post 32 made on Friday September 2, 2011 at 10:17
Nueatit
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CTV solid for me on chn 9 in Richmond Hill due north of CN Tower, occassional chn 36 but still no CHCH chn 11. All T.O. chn solid for me, lately trouble with chn 23-1, good signal but spotty video. Closely watching for WNED chn 17 rf 43, afraid of overload from chn 44.

Looking south there are highrises and very good reflective in nature, these will cause me trouble over time. Could be chn 11 problem for me too.
Post 33 made on Friday September 2, 2011 at 10:47
buffalofan19
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On August 31, 2011 at 12:59, hd fan said...
well not all tuners are created equal but more likely difference in cable length plays a bigger factor. I do not see people complaining about loosing CTV so I guess their coverage is fairly similar to what they had when they were on ch 40 digital specially when most people have UHF only antennas. That is good news.

I would argue that CFTO is better than it was before, at least down here in Buffalo, at night and in the morning hours. I do plan on checking periodically checking it out in the afternoon hours tomorrow while watching college football to see if there is a loss during the day.
Post 34 made on Saturday September 3, 2011 at 10:02
cocoa
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I've got the same experience as Mr. Eous here in Toronto. I can finally get Global again @ 41 but no CHCH TV 11. That is too bad because they used to have a good digital signal.

Here is CHCH TV's contact email. Complain.

[email protected]

Sue
Post 35 made on Saturday September 3, 2011 at 11:11
keaster2000
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I have contacted CHCH on behalf of forum members that have lost TV 11 I didn't lost CHCH). I invited them to read comments in this thread too. We'll see what they have to say...
Post 36 made on Saturday September 3, 2011 at 13:06
cocoa
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Thanks Keaster.
Post 37 made on Sunday September 4, 2011 at 02:47
hd fan
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Wow it is sad that engineers have to read public internet forums like this to be able to do their job properly eh?. Just calling their attention should be enough although in my opinion RF propagation models should have already told them that 6 kW was not enough juice (unless they only want to catter to only Hamilton).

Just a note , anyone loosing CHCH make sure you use a proper VHF antenna (although at merely 6 kW I doubt anyone in the toronto area will get it anyways)
Post 38 made on Sunday September 4, 2011 at 08:35
SouthEast Mississauga
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I am receiving CHCH in the late evening with a 43% strength reading with my indoor antenna aimed at Buffalo. During the day the signal is absent or at best, flashing in and out. Not worth my while to redirect the antenna for the one Hamilton station.
Post 39 made on Wednesday September 7, 2011 at 01:00
BillFromGI
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Putting this into perspective; CHCH's signal is equal to the power of 41 (that's fourty-one) 150 watt floodlights.. .
Post 40 made on Wednesday September 7, 2011 at 10:37
Nueatit
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Very good comparison by BillFromGI, my air conditioner uses more kw than their ERIP of 6.1 Kw, keeping in mind this is ERIP, actual tx power is less than that, depends on antenna gain. In my best guess they are running either a 500 watt or 1 Kw tx maximun. A 7.5 db omni antenna gives approx. 6 Kw ERIP with 1 Kw tx.

The new low power rf amps upconvert baseband on the tower mounted rf amp, reduces rf transmission line losses and saves $$$$$$.
Post 41 made on Wednesday September 7, 2011 at 14:55
mr.eous
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On September 3, 2011 at 10:02, cocoa said...
I've got the same experience as Mr. Eous here in Toronto. I can finally get Global again @ 41 but no CHCH TV 11. That is too bad because they used to have a good digital signal.

Here is CHCH TV's contact email. Complain.

[email protected]

I've read enough viewer complaints who have received no acknowledgement or response from that generic address. I'd suggest using one of the "important people" from their CRTC submission... you can find direct contacts within here.

Of addtional note, their engineering brief submitted to the CRTC/IC stated "the transmitter will be a 500 Watt model, operating at 465 Watts" where antenna gain will give them 6kW.
Totally laughable, eh. My computer + monitor is likely consuming more energy than 465 watts!!!
Post 42 made on Thursday September 8, 2011 at 09:25
bmac.to
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I live in the High Park area of Toronto and have a YA6713 for VHF-HI. When CHCH switched to 11, there wasnt much difference for me - about the same signal strength as prior to the switchover - strong enough I never have to point the antenna anywhere near Hamilton.

I am only posting this to show it is possible to receive CHCH in Toronto (maybe only the west side of Toronto). I would love CHCH to increase their signal strength as well (along with almost every other channel).
Post 43 made on Thursday September 8, 2011 at 14:55
hd fan
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Thanks for the info but your yagui was specialy designed not only for ch 7-13 but centered around ch 10 as per Winegard specs therefore with its 60 degrees and at least 7.2 dbd (it says reference dipole) your are in better position to get that signal than most people. I agree with you in that everyone needs a VHF antenna on this GTA market now that CTV and CHCH are on that band (although lots of people will get away with a UHF only) specially if your going to complain loss of CHCH signal but in any case 6 KW EIRP does not sound appropiate for digital VHF-Hi. Even considering that man made noise (EMI, impulse noise) is not as bad as it is in VHF-Lo still any TV station operating with 7-13 should consider more power than those in UHF. I mean for UHF 1/10th of previous analog EIRP is enough but even with VHF-Hi it should be more than that. I have not made the proper calculations or run propagation models for ch 11 but recent USA experience has shown that more power was needed on real life scenarios after the switch over. Models will get improved I guess, similar to Hurricane prediction we are still improving the needed math.


In any case do not expect a VHF digital station to be a flamethrower or have a lot of power in its amp , as it is not needed after all. VHF signals travel way farther that its UHF counterparts. I hope the engineers will fix this shortly , to bad that CRTC/IC burocracy seems to operate way slower thant it american counterpart were after the digita lswitch stations were granted authorisation to increase power or change to UHF just after 1 month. In Canada it seems could take 1 year though. True facts, true data , constructive criticism or just simply callign the engineer's attention should be the proper approach rather than comparing your washing machine motor power or simply reading the internet and spreading the popular word.

Too bad the regulators and IC engineers allowed this to happen in the first place anyways. I guess the ostrich game not only runs deep in Canadian society but also within its institutions. They should have learnt from USA, they should have adviced CHCH engineers and not only that they should have denied their licence based on the grounds that they no longer seem to cover the same coverage area that before. But heck , I am not the regulator neither this is communism, lol.

Lets see how long it takes them to fix this anyways.

Last edited by hd fan on September 8, 2011 18:22.
Post 44 made on Saturday March 10, 2012 at 00:27
el gran chico
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Earlier today, the CRTC approved CHCH's request to return to UHF

[Link: crtc.gc.ca]

Broadcasting Decision CRTC 2012-142

Route reference: Part 1 application posted on 24 November 2011

Ottawa, 9 March 2012

2190015 Ontario Inc.
Hamilton, Ontario

Application 2011-1504-8
CHCH-DT Hamilton – Technical change

1. The Commission approves the application by 2190015 Ontario Inc. to change the technical parameters of the English-language digital television (DTV) programming undertaking CHCH-DT Hamilton by changing the channel from 11 to 15 and increasing the average effective radiated power (ERP) from 4,500 to 59,000 watts (maximum ERP from 6,000 to 132,000 watts with the average effective height of antenna above average terrain from 361 to 355 metres). All other technical parameters will remain unchanged.

2. The applicant noted that channel 15 was recently vacated by CKXT-DT-1 Hamilton when the Sun TV station ceased operations[1] and stated that the proposed change was necessary for the following reasons:

the station’s DTV coverage on channel 11 has proved to be significantly less than when the station broadcast in analog;

the station has lost many viewers who previously tuned to the channel 18 transitional DTV channel, which was shut down at the end of the DTV transition; and

mobile DTV operates better on UHF channels (channel 14-51) than on VHF channels (channels 2-13).

3. The Commission received interventions in support of this application, which argued that the technical change would improve reception of CHCH-DT. The Commission also received interventions that commented on or opposed the application. The concerns of those interveners generally related to potential interference resulting from CHCH-DT’s proposed use of channel 15 with U.S. stations and an unlicensed station operating in the Toronto area. The complete record of this proceeding is available on the Commission’s website at www.crtc.gc.ca under “Public Proceedings.”

4. The Commission notes that the resolution of interference is the responsibility of the Department of Industry (the Department) and that the Department has deemed the proposal to be technically acceptable. The Commission further notes that the Department’s rules do not afford protection to U.S. television services received in Canada.

5. The Commission reminds the licensee that, pursuant to section 22(1) of the Broadcasting Act, this authority will only be effective when the Department notifies the Commission that its technical requirements have been met and that a broadcasting certificate will be issued.
Post 45 made on Saturday March 10, 2012 at 23:16
hd fan
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El gran chico, Once again and as usual Thanks so much for the valuable info. This is very good news, as most people are using UHF only antennas , and local all day news (night movies although old are welcome anyways) is very much demanded by most people. 59 kW EIRP for ch 15 is good news. Lets see how long till the changes takes effect.

BTW point 3 is very funny. Apparently someone was concerned with potential interference with an unlicensed station operating in Toronto , lol, kind of a school principal concerned that the current education system or programs might interfere with the local drug dealers plans , lol. Welcome to the land of the free , lol.

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