I think we're 5% of the world's population. On a per-person basis we spew out a tremendous amount of stuff, far more than other countries.

Thanks for the gracious invitation, but I won't be changing my faith any time soon.

Most of the sources you cited (sited if you're reading along, Thon) are policitical activisim groups, think tanks, etc. I'll dismiss them as having an ax to grind.

The NPR article you pull one quote from, and the NASA as well. If you go through the rest of the NPR or NASA information you'll find a vast preponderance of information about global warming indicates that it is happening, with vast amounts of data to back it up.

Look, if you want to make the decisions on who you vote for and who you support based on your views and your faith, you live in the right country for it. I admire people of faith, and this country would not be where it is now without them and you. However, other peoples faith will no influence my pursuit of the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but.

I'm done with this, and now need to go help the American economy improve by making money and paying taxes.

oh my god you guys are killing me with this thread..... fu@% global warming... we are in a natural climate change. we cant do jack shit about it except enjoy the changes


who is that trouble maker clark griswold?...ashhole

ed

LOL!!!!

For all of you worried about Global warming...Quit Breathing> the CO2 is killing me.

Who then are you taking your lessons from? Limbaugh, Hannity or one of the other right-wing radio hacks?


My argument is, to my knowledge, none of us are global warming scientists. Therefore, I'll tend to side with those who know much more then I do, which is the majority of the scientific community. While there's a very small percentage of scientists who rebuke the warming theory, most scientists agree with it.

In fact, there's no reason for this subject to be even debatable, except that this is the US, and we must protect our corporate intrests; even if it comes at the cost of burying evidence, suppressing science, and putting humans, plants and animals at risk. After all, in a capitalistic society, we need our "trickle down". How can anyone be happy unless Shell & Proctor & Gamble are happy?


Oh f*ck Charleton Heston and his dumb-ass, non-scientific speech. Wake up and think for yourself.

Cudos though to the Right-Wing spin machine. They've actually mobilized a fair number of ordinary folks to fight their corporate interests on a grass-roots level.

The global groups of 'UN scientists' that are clamouring about global warming aren't really scientists. They're a bunch of no bodies claiming to be scientists.

I'll stick with the true scietific community and call BS to most of their report. Gore is a blow hard and very little of his nonsense is supportable by fact or findings of those who have dedicated their lives to science.

It's unfortunate that this can't be discussed without politics taking over the topic. It's a vast right wing conspiracy. ITs all about making the oil people and Bush rich. yada yada yada.

Gimmee a break.

You're right. It is unfortunate.

However, my invoccation of the Bush administration, and their subsequent burying of everything that doesn't coincide with the beliefs of their political donors ie. global warming, stem cells, etc. is only after reading pages after pages of people attacking Al Gore for either allegedly having a financial benefit from the "Green Community" or for him living in a large house.

I see the attacks on Gore as being akin to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth campaign.

AHEM,

You are missing the point. All these guys that insist global warming is a myth need something to sink their teeth into now that's it no longer fashionable to claim that "there's no scientific evidence that smoking causes cancer"

Just like I said, you (meaning people in general) read articles that agree with your conclusion and you accept it. Contrary evidence is dismissed or the sources are discredited. Just like I said.

Any possibility that the side you are on has an ax to grind?

Any chance someone could make a profit if they can convince us it's true?

I'm just asking questions, that's all.


Well yes. Did you also note that the warming and the increase in CO2 did not coincide like they should? Did you also see that there is not a consensus that we are causing it? And how are you going to come up with evidence that we can fix it? I think it's a pipe dream.

The part that really irritates me is that we get hammered with "fixes" for the supposed problem that costs us countless billions of dollars in tax, regulations, which are bad for business folks like you and me.

For the next agitating thread, let's not ever consider drilling for oil where it might cause environmental damage. Let's just keep buying oil from the folks who blew up our towers. Let's keep financing their effort. I love that.

BTW, is there an answer to my last question:

"Is it not correct to say that there is NO consensus, but instead that there is HEATED DEBATE??"

It all depends on the size of the boat and its occupants. If 20 people were on the Titanic and ran to one side (before it sank) and water came over the side it would suggest that the sea was pretty rough. The sea would sink the boat.

If 20 people were on a dinghy and ran to one side the boat would capsize and THEY would sink the boat.

A poor analogy, me thinks. I think the one to apply here is the first.


I have heard things too. So is what I heard right or what you heard? I'm sure if we could compare the raw scientific data, it would still prove inconclusive. If we showed each other the films and documentaries we had seen we would still not agree. We would bicker at how this was motivated by that, etc.

No win.

But it keeps us all busy from working on what really matters. And that is finding ways to actually deal with the problems we are going to face in the future because of climate change.

Like ceied says, let's enjoy it. Perhaps not everyone's choice of action. But in the face of such nonsense from our governments taxing us so hard instead of making real changes, I'm going along with it. Any ice in there Ed?

Let's take a look at taxing airlines more. But the government wants to make way for more runways at Heathrow. Isn't that a little contradictory? It will bring more pollution, CO2 emissions and noise, not to mention more development where it is not wanted to the inhabitants (human and others) which wil get wiped off the face of England. How does that make a cohesive policy against global warming. If they were serious about CO2 emissions it would have a re-think about that.

There is just not enough honesty in the CO2/global warming debate put upon us by the governments of the world (namely western) to give any of it credibility.

Of course, if it is said enough times, we might remember it.


No, it just frustrates me. I am an installer first and the power of marketing puts me in positions that make me want to;

A) Puke
B) Stangle my customer
C) Strangle the marketing 'guru' who came up with the cr@p
D) all of the above

Ya know, it would be really refreshing to see a few of you man made global warming guys concede that maybe, just maybe the US isn't to blame for all this. The only real "facts" I have seen are that the earth's average temperature has been hotter before the combustion engine existed and the earth itself has spewed much more gas into the atmosphere at times than man could ever produce. These 2 things alone would suggest that it is "more likely" that any warming we observe is random. And as, I think OEX said, there isn't jack shit the US can do by itself to change this, anyway. Also, if you don't think the pro-global warming crowd has agendas, think again.

Hey, I take back everything Alan ever said about you!

frankly i am enjoying global warming. maybe some day i will be able to have my boat in the water in lake michigan for more than 4 months. i love 60 degrees in january and february.

i say bring it on and enjoy it, cuz there aint shit we can do about it.

did you know Mars the polar caps there are melting as well, explain that. i did not know wh were on mars yet.

its the sun boys and girls. the sun is outputting lots more stuff causing us to get warmer not to mention the earths magnetic feild is moving as well....

global warming is not happening it called global climate change...shove that up your asses and smoke it.


ed

No, but we are accountable for about 22%.

Here are a few organizations that accept anthropogenic global warming as real & scientifically accepted:

NASA's Goddard Institue of Space Studies
National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration
Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
National Academy of Sciences
State of Canadian Cryosphere
Enivronmental Protection Agency
The Royal Society of the UK
American Geophysical Union
American Meterological Society
American Institute for Physics
Canadian Meterological & Oceanographic Society
Chinese Acadamy of Scientists
Swedish Acadamy of Scientists
Science Council of Japan
Russian Academy of Science
Indian National Science Academy
Accademia dei Lincei (Italy)
Academie des Sciences (France)
Academy of Science (Germany)
...To name a few....

But if you think scientists are too liberal and politicians too unreliable, perhaps the opinion of key industry represenatives might be more convincing:

BP: the largest oil company in the UK and one of the largest in the world say:
"There is an increasing concensous that climate change is linked to the consumption of carbon based fuels".

SHELL OIL: Shell shares the widespread concern that the emission of greenhouse gases from human activities is leading to changes in the global climates.

A group of 18 of the top CEO's in Canada recently wrote an open letter to the Canadian Prime Minister:
"We accept the IPCC concensous that climate change raises the risk of sever consequences for human health & security and the environment, and note that Canada is particularly vulnerbale to the impact of climate change".


Any of you guys still the the world is flat too??? LOL!!!!