what about customers who have bandwidth limits with their cable companies? i see that being the biggest problem

Guys,

this is for very special customers. Even though it can be compared to atv, netflix or vudu it is really different for the right customer. This special customer is usually either someone that collects DVDs and BDs or a customer with 50k+ cinema or expensive projector. Can you imagine spending 50k+ on a home cinema or 30k+ on a projector and watching compressed content from atv without HD audio?

So, yes it is for rich people - that's a fact. But then again I am sure there are many 1000s 50k+ cinemas around and also it is the only solution for yachts.

P.S. We use a demo K system at home/office and also an ATV. My K system has about 1500 dvds stored. It is true that I use the ATV much more but when I want to watch a good movie on my projector, I will always use the K.

Clearly everyone doesn't live in (or even has access to) this magical land of 24/7 zero throttle cap-free 50+ megabit that 39cent eludes to. They all have Ferrari's, too; how often they get above 75mph is another story. Claiming this fits into the yacht and tour bus market makes zero sense. You're lucky to get 2-4 megabit at sea for what, 35 grand per month? If there's one thing I know about the rich, when they want something they want it NOW.

Claiming this fits into the yacht and tour bus market makes zero sense. You're lucky to get 2-4 megabit at sea for what, 35 grand per month? If there's one thing I know about the rich, when they want something they want it NOW.

The yacht comment was about k and not k's download service - it is the only solution for yachts if you do not want to be sued. Is there any other solution where you can load, manage and watch 2-3k discs of dvds and BDs reliably?

To add on, unless something has changed, they are downloading complete copies of the blu-ray master that was used to make the BD. That is why you get everything.

While that is convenient, personally I would have opted just for the movie and one lossless track and let the customer download the rest as needed. That would cut down the download time by roughly a third.

Not sure how you can call this to little too late. It is the ONLY bit for bit download service available!

The size of the file is what it is and so is the pipe into the house. K needs to get creative with apps and emails so people can start a download during the day at work etc.

Another idea is a option to sign up to download every release over a certain IMDB rating. Set it to 7 and the second a movie is available at or above 7 it automatically downloads. Add a text alert or similar, with a 1hr time limit to cancel.

Wait a minute, I thought they lost their last lawsuit and were shut down from ripping DVDs. Did they get that overturned?

agree


My understanding is that it is a purchase and DL version not a rental streaming service. So people won't sit in the HT and decide "what do we watch now, let's go to the store, but I purchased these films (some from this, BD or DVD) what do you want to see"


Don’t know about that, but personally I don’t see the benefit, I would rather buy the BD and rip-it to the system and have the BD for other uses (i.e. bring it to friends, play in car/laptop....) then pay the same for the same content.

I understand, but I see two problems. First problem is, other than the occasional OCD movie fanatic, who plans ahead and buys a movie from online before they want to watch it? Second problem, adding to this, iTunes and Vudu have already set the precedent of being able to buy a movie and watch it almost immediately. I question how many of our highly impatient wealthy clients will welcome these download times.

I get that kscape is trying to set themselves apart on quality. But I question the strategy.

I just don't see the allure of KScape...

First the service is in "Beta" and is offering SD quality at this time. They intend to offer Blu-Ray in the future. So the promise of quality is only a future capability, and not something they offer right now.

Second the downloads are going to take a long time. Even if you have available a smokin fast connection, the speeds will likely be throttled by their servers. Then the issue of bandwidth caps will become a real issue.

Third, since this is a full download, I assume I'll be forced to sit through the endless trailers and legal notices just like on a BD disk. This drives me up the wall with the BD disks.

I have a solution that works for me today, at a fraction of the cost. The problem, is that it is technically illegal. I use MyMovies with AnyDVD HD. I have an optical drive attached to my Home Server, and ripping a movie involves sticking a disk in the drive, and walking away. This rip takes 10-15 minutes... much less time than the download will take Kscape, and at the end I won't have to sit through trailers, as I've configured AnyDVD to rip only the movie and the audio my system needs.

I don't feel bad about doing this. I'm buying the movies, and therefore supporting the people that make them. I doubt any company would ever want to take me to court, as what would they claim as how they were damaged? I bought the movie, and have a right to use it. I is only on my home server, and used by one system at a time, just like the disk.

I understand why the pros here cannot offer a system like this, but that fact doesn't make Kscape compelling.

I think this is an effort by a company in their Death Throes to do what they need to in order to stay alive. Unfortunately, I think it will be too little, too late.

When K rips a movie it discards the trailers and other assorted advertisements. It begins play from the movie. I would venture a guess based on this that their streaming service would do the same. Legality is what is killing this industry. When you look at NAPSTER it was clear to the music industry attorneys that they ought to have made a deal. But the industry was not ready to deal. It was and remains the best interface for sharing and playing music.

The issue is simply that the industry does not know how to deal with file sharing or streaming so thay react defensively and get behind the curve. Ultra-Violet is a more or less good solution though I agree it is probably too late save for the confirmed videophile ( who odds are cannot afford it ) and the uber-tech who must have the latest and greatest toy ( and there are not many of these left ) to save the product.

You would never be a K* sale. You're an engineer and a DIY. I could never afford a K*. But when you are serving the carriage trade a reliable solution is the sine qua non. Cool only goes so far if the system fails.

What you are also not taking into account ( because you don't need to ) is that K is the single most reliable network product I've ever sold. It is miles ahead of every other in the category, from CD servers through video streamers. It more or less works all of the time. Even hard drive failures are easily repaired for a "reasonable" sum.

There are many DIY options where burning is concerned. But there are far fewer available for the non-DIY which are reliable. I do not have the time to be full time IT for every client. I do not want to deal with DRM. I do not want to deal with failed drives. I do not want to deal with failed front ends that need to be rebooting. K was easy to install. It was easy to control ( indeed it had one of the best UIs I've ever run across ) and it was reliable.

The allure is that it is legal and it works.. all the time. If I had the cash, I would probably go this way. If I had even more cash, I would probably get one of those services where Hollywood ships you new movies on a hard drive :)

Also, in your time evaluation, did you include the time needed to actually get the movie before you ripped it?

CJ

Server bandwidth is under their control and given their small installed base, I don't expect that to be the bottleneck.


This is one of the most clever things about K. They take every movie today and create a special playlist for it that lets it instantly play a BD disc with no trailers, FBI warnings, etc. The same will be just as true for their downloads if they offer the BD master as the download. Exact same code would work against that so I don't see this as an issue.


I am unsure of this analogy. You are describing ripping which K does more simply than the solution you mention. See example above for example. I have used Mymovies and it simply is not as elegant, simple or reliable as K. I wish it was. But there are still gaps in usability. Today, if I want to add one more player to a K system, I just buy the player, connect the ethernet cable and I am golden. Creating such a plug-and-play is hard using PCs or even appliances.

If you are a hobbyist on limited budget then what you describe is fine. But for people who can afford K, it is not as competitive.

And again, we are deviating from the subject of the thread which is downloading movies to own in high quality. While I think K is going a bit too far in using BD masters, there is a need for high quality downloads in the market. If folks think there are bandwidth issues, they exist in spades when we are talking about streaming. You can deliver much higher fidelity experience using downloads. I explain the reasoning in this article I wrote a couple of years ago: [Link: madronadigital.com]

Just to give you a short version, typical Netflix stream runs at just 2.5 mbit/sec. Compare this to peak of 48 mbit/sec for BD and essentially infinite if you used a hard disk for playback.

Yes, the long download time up front is not good. I think it is a psychological problem for customers. I think they should allow instant streaming option at the same time. The UV support might give them this. The pre-download option might be even better (activate when the movie is officially released).


I doubt that anyone will chase you ever. But they are always chasing Slysoft. There are instances of MKB/BD+ updates that make that software not work for a bit of time. This again is unacceptable to high-end customers.


I agree K needs a viable new strategy. They face significant risks moving forward. They need to bring out a compelling digital service that is differentiated. They have taken a small to medium step here. They need to take a few more :).

I don't think OCD has anything to do with it, I have always said there are two types of people renters and buyers. If you buy something it is "permanent" and not for a one time short term use, so there tends to be more thought in "do I want it" but a lot less of "right now".

Now don't get me wrong, a buyer might be excited and might not be able to wait to see a film and so that wait might bug him, but my point was just simply that if you invite people for a film, you would most likely not be "let's all stop by the store and you guys pick a film I will buy for 20$" but most likely "these are the films I own, what do you want to see"


I agree with that, they do have tough competition. On the other hand I think they went the way they did just because of that. think about it, why would someone buy an expensive k system when they could buy a player from a different manufacturer at a small fraction of the cost?



I think it was more of a reaction to the lost court case several months back. At this point they were dead in the water. This was the only possible Hail Mary play.

I can imagine 2 options around these issues for K customers. First, K already has existing data on the content owned by and installed on a K system. They could use a "Tivo-like" algorithm to download suggested content on to a client's system.
They could transparently download quite a few films onto a system but keep them hidden till one selects them from their store. Thus, access to high end content could be achieved without those long waits.

Ultra-Violet is reported ( so I have heard ) to offer its customers new released theatrical content a few weeks after that film has its theatrical release. What if K* transparently downloaded those titles on to their system and the client would go and purchase it to view. Thus it's just a key to unlock and once unlocked it was available for immediate viewing.

High quality seemingly available for immediate use? Ultra-Violet is carriage trade only but it might be what a K customer would want. iTunes downloads for free various songs on to my phone as a marketing tool. It's transparent. It's just there. If these downloads just showed up and only needed to be unlocked it might get around some of the issues you've outlined.