As my posts are getting deleted, I'm wondering what else is true around here. I guess my last post about URC's support model didn't go quite well with the admins here and it was removed. I guess that freedom of speech doesn't apply when advertising is paying the bills. Only will you see the positive points of view and not the negative. I'm just wondering how long this one will last.

I do believe URC should release a "lite" version of their programming software to consumers. They probably would increase sales. I've programmed several 880's, using all the features and functions I can and it really isn't hard to do.

You mean this one?

[Link: remotecentral.com]

I can assure you that Daniel, the owner of Remote Central, maintains a fair and unbiased editorial stance. We here at URC see negative comments about our products and service from time to time just like other manufacturers do. Daniel doesn't delete them. As much as it might benefit us if there was a way to limit negative commentary, Daniel holds the integrity of his site above the influence of advertising dollars.

Before I continue, let me say that this is me talking as a technically proficient consumer who happens to be inside URC. This is not URC talking. 

I get grilled every time I try to offer a fair and rational explanation of URC's consumer policy, and that's probably going to happen this time as well. Still, I'm going to attempt this one more time, in the hope that I can communicate that our policies are designed to meet the specific needs of a specific market, not to smash the hopes or insult the intelligence of technically competent do-it-yourselfers.

Regarding a consumer version of our editor software: we respect your view, but there's a much larger picture in our business model than simply trying to increase unit sales. The editor software is only one facet of our whole-house product line strategy. That strategy involves designing inter-operable devices that are geared to the types of home theater and whole-house automation strategies that professional installers deploy.

Is it possible for technically proficient end-users to figure out our editor software? Of course it is. However, making a "lite" version for consumers opens up a tremendous can of worms with effects that ripple through the entire product line and affects every division of the company, from marketing to technical support.

First and foremost, most consumers are not technically proficient—and that's okay, because they don't care to be. Technically proficient consumers could always have set the clocks and program their VCR's, but 90% of consumers never did either. Second, the training we provide to our installers isn't about how to work the editor software; it's about how to incorporate our products into solutions, using techniques and technologies that 99% of consumers would never attempt on their own. Keeping our editor software exclusive to our dealers isn't about telling anyone they're not capable of using the software. It's about gearing the technologies we create to the installers who make their living providing solutions to people who very specifically do not want to do it themselves. Watering that technology down at one end of the product line has implications that negatively affect our primary market. 

We do make some consumer products, but they're not tied in to the Complete Control or Total Control ecosystems. If those products don't meet a technically proficient consumer's needs, that consumer can try to work with a dealer to get pro-level products and software. But URC doesn't reduce the capabilities of our professional product lines to accomodate the consumer market, even if potential unit sales are greater in that market. An analogy is that the market for lawn tractors is vastly greater than the market for commercial graders, but Caterpillar doesn't make a consumer version of their professional construction equipment.

In short, technically proficient consumers are, and always have been, in a gray area for technology companies. What we design for average consumers doesn't do everything you want it to do, and what we design for professionals can't be scaled back to meet your needs without compromising the professional market. There simply aren't enough tech-savvy consumers to design products specifically for that market. As a result, us technically proficienct consumers are frequently left wanting for features we desire or for access to product lines that aren't consumer-level at all.

I hope everyone sees this as a friendly dialog about this issue. I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind, because it's frustrating to want things and then hear that you're not getting the answer you wanted. Conversely, replies or arguments to this won't change URC's policies, even if somehow you managed to change my personal view on the subject. I also know it's very easy to think, "they should do this," when you're not involved with the business decisions that dictate why they don't "do this." In any case, I'm not trying to shoot anyone down here or rain on anyone's parade. I'm just trying to give a fair and honest reply to the simple question of why URC doesn't make a consumer version of our professional products.

Best regards,

Dale Crawford
Product Design Manager
Universal Remote Control, Inc.

If things are so easy why do you need so much support?

Great reply Dale. I enjoy hearing of company commitement to our market. Makes more want to sell more URC.

I'm one of the Technically Proficient Consumers and I see nothing wrong with the policy URC has chosen. It makes good business sense.

I'd like to ask a related question. If you have an MX-800, or similar "professional" remote, and you are NOT an installation professional are you allowed to post in this forum? I had assumed that since I own an MX-800 that this was the place for MX-800 questions to be asked, as it was virtually the same as an MX-850.

I ask because my question about MX-800 programming was silently deleted. To me it seemed like a reasonable question, with no negatives about the product expressed.

As a former computer programmer I confidently state that I am "technically competent".

I have posted in past years and was surprised to find no record of my post.

BTW - if the post should have been in another part of the forum I'd love to have a copy of the original post. It took quite a while to make sure I accurately stated the problem I was having.

This post?  [Link: remotecentral.com]

A computer programmer that can't use a search tool?

Ahh! An assumption!

Yes, I searched and could find nothing that addressed my specific problem. That was step number one.

BTW - that post was NOT the one I was referring to. I made one within the last month.

I also apologize if I upset anyone. As you can tell by my number of posts, I rarely post here. I can usually figure out what I need to know by myself.

I'll give you a dealer's perspective. I think it is fine to leave it up to the dealer but it does get complicated. I did this several times in the past some time ago, before CCP and Total Control. I will say I would be reluctant to do it again and if I do it will be clear if you call for advice you will be charged.

Every person I had did this for and almost all were 'programmers' or IT guys I have had to spend at least an hour and some multiple hours going over stuff with them. Granted not at once. They would call and I'd explain something and take maybe 15-20 minutes with them. Then they call again and again and the pattern goes on. Plus enthusiasts tend to set up more complicated systems and have questions on how to integrate the technology not just use the software as Dale stated. I never charged anyone for this advice.

As a programmer you should know that you don't pick up a new programming language quickly. This stuff isn't rocket science but it does have a learning curve and the manuals are not always up to date. It is not always the consumers fault. Dealers have better resources for when they have questions but consumers have to use the dealer for support or come to forums like these.

Now it is an unusual position URC's policy puts the dealer. Nobody goes to a plumber, carpenter, mechanic, etc. and says I bought this from you, now can you tell me how to install it. Now that is what they do and they want to be paid for their service. Now, not everyone would need help but so far in my experience it has been 100% of the people we have given software to have needed some level of support. This is the position the dealer gets put in because customers expect support when they buy something software related.

It is up to the dealer to decide if he is going to give out the software and/or offer support. If a dealer is not willing to do this don't get offended and find another dealer that will. Dealers don't be rude if they ask just politely say no you don't do that. No need for for some of the ugliness that happens on some of these threads on both sides.

BobL,
Thanks for the reply. I'm such an infrequent visitor here I don't know the rules. I was simply trying to find out if this was the wrong place for me to post a question about an MX-800. I'd assumed that since the MX-800 and MX-850 were virtual identical that this was the place.

Since this is a open forum, composed of volunteers, I don't fully understand the apparent limitation of participation by non-professionals, but that is neither here nor there. However, I do suggest that if this is the case that it be more explicitly stated in the forum description to avoid future posts by people like me.

From a personal point of view I am upset that my post was silently deleted.  It would have been more polite to say it went in another forum or moved it there. (If I can get my post's wording back I would appreciate it).

This would be the correct forum to ask a question and there will be many people willing to help.

my appologies, after the original poster complained about a deleted post, yet i was able to find the post, I did ASSsume that you made the same mistake.  sorry.