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Topic:
Kameleon 8 in 1 fried my tv :)
This thread has 23 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Sunday January 9, 2005 at 11:51
Thomas Davie
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11
I just thought that some may find this interesting. I really can't get pissed at it because there is nothing I can do.

My tv u=is an Advent 27 inch flat screen model

[Link: adventtv.com]

I had programmed the Kameleon with my DVD and DVD recorder at my girlfriend's house because she had the identical models. I got home and tried the only available preset key for my TV; 0761. Didn't work. So I started to learn the keys for my TV, and was only able to program 3 of them in. I suppose I had already met or surpassed the 25 key limit (back to the store with this remote). So, out of curiosity, I started pressing keys to see what would happen. I hit the swap key near the bottom of the remote, and my television gave a loud high pitched whine/crack and the picture was reduced to a thin white line across the screen.

Hmmm, not good. I waited a few seconds, staring like an idiot, and then the picture restored to ~ 2/3 of the screen albeit in a bizzare trapeziodal squashed format and there was Chinese writing all over the screen. I went into my TV setup, and it too was all in Chinese.

I eventually got the English restored, but more than 1/2 of the options do not exist in the TV setup. So, squashed TV, squashed DVDs, and squashed DVD recording.

The tv is under warranty, and it will go back to the store (6-8 weeks), so I'll probably end up buying another TV, but I'm curious; does anyone have an idea what happened?

Reading the Kameleon manual indicates that the swap key will swap thge main and PIP pictures *if* PIP is enabled. Which it wasn't (since my TV isn't PIP capable). At least I have my tivo on my computer.

Tom
Post 2 made on Sunday January 9, 2005 at 12:32
The Robman
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Many TVs are programmed to respond to additional codes other than the ones covered by the buttons on the original remote. These codes often include discrete power codes and input selects, but in addition to that they also include codes that get you into the service menu and, on occassion, codes that will completely reset your TV (somewhat like the code you stumbled across).

What evidently happened is this, your TV must be programmed to respond to the code that was programmed on the SWAP button as part of TV/0761, so when you pressed it, that's what you got. I assume for some other model of TV this code really is the PIP-SWAP command, but not yours.

The fault here lies squarely with Advent for using a code which is a valid code for some other model to work such a destructive function.

I just looked up the TV/0761 setup code, uses the NECx1 protocol with a device code of 8, but there isn't anything assigned to the SWAP button, so are you sure this is the code you had programmed to the TV device button?

I'm assuming your remote is the One For All URC-9960 rather than the Radio Shack 15-2138? If so, can you check if it's the B01 version.
Rob.
[Link: hifi-remote.com]
OP | Post 3 made on Sunday January 9, 2005 at 14:00
Thomas Davie
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Thanks for the reply. Yes, 0761 is the code that I had used for the TV, but with it not working, I started to learn codes using the learn function. However, I was only able to program the power, volume up/down and mute buttons before I was unable to learn any more keys. It was at this point that I started pressing every key on the TV screen to see if they would have any effect. Obviously, pressing the swap key did.

So, at least prior to learning the few key presses that I was able to, 0761 was the code entered (apparently with no effect). Whether or not device code settings remained when I started to learn, I don't know. I'm guessing yes, since use of the swap key had an effect, and I definately didn't learn anything for that key.

No, the remote id the Radio Shack 15-2138, and it is indeed the B01 version that has the ability to turn off the tilt switch and the remote locator.

thanks

Tom

(On the assumption that I did indeed stumble onto a non documented service code, it might be possible to recerse the damage through the use of other service codes, but I'm not holding out hope)
Post 4 made on Sunday January 9, 2005 at 14:17
edmund
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13,597
This has happen before, where a remote effected the Advent tv, someone mentioned it in the sony forum here. Then there is this long thread in the JP1 Forum.
Post 5 made on Sunday January 9, 2005 at 15:32
johnsfine
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It sure sounds like this is the same problem as the one discussed in the second thread Edmund mentioned.

But that means this TV doesn't respond at all to TV/0761 (which might be consistent with what Tom said. I'm not sure about the meaning of some of the things Tom said).

The TV responds to Philips TV commands, but one of the Philips TV commands destroys it. That presents a serious danger when using this TV with any universal remote.

To fit that theory to Tom's description of events, we must assume the SWAP button was already programmed by learning or KeyMove to the Philips TV signal that causes the harm. Programming a setup code (TV/0761 in this case) has no effect on previous learned signals. So it wouldn't even matter whether TV/0761 defined that key or what it defined it as. The previous KeyMove or learned signal remains in effect.

If you get another of this TV with the same stupid firmware, I think you can get the working functions to work using a Philips setup code. But you better be very sure you know in advance which command in that Philips setup code trashes the TV, so you can override the programming (with a different KeyMove or learned signal) so that command can't be generated by accident.
Post 6 made on Sunday January 9, 2005 at 15:44
johnsfine
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On 01/09/05 14:00 ET, Thomas Davie said...
Whether or not device
code settings remained when I started to learn,
I don't know. I'm guessing yes, since use of the
swap key had an effect, and I definately didn't
learn anything for that key.

The device setting does remain for other keys when you do learning. But in this case we can be confident that's not where the signal on the SWAP key came from.

Since you had so little learning memory left when you started with the Advent, we can be confident your remote had many learned signals in it before you started with the Advent. Most likely, the SWAP key with some Philips TV signal (likely, but not necessarily the Philips TV SWAP signal) was one of those learned signals (otherwise it was a KeyMove).

At Radio Shack, a confusing product like this remote has a good chance of having been sold and returned by someone else before you got it. So someone who read a lot on this forum would know to do a full Mfgr reset on such a remote before starting to use it, to avoid any surprises left by a previous owner.

Of course I have no basis for guessing that a previous owner was responsible. Maybe you learned a Philips TV signal on purpose or by accident during that visit to your girlfriend's house.

Also, the full reset would tend to just delay the disaster here. The normal thing to do after TV/0761 fails is do a code search, so you'd discover that some Philips TV setup code (such as TV/0054) mostly works (so you don't need learning to support this device). But then you'd be bringing the disaster command into play yourself.

As I said before on this subject: Philips TV's are very common. A manufacturer who makes a product with firmware that self destructs when it sees a certain Philips TV command has made a defective product and should be held fully resposible for repairing the results.

This message was edited by johnsfine on 01/09/05 15:52 ET.
OP | Post 7 made on Sunday January 9, 2005 at 19:31
Thomas Davie
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Thanks to all who hav replied here. I apologize if I've not made myself clear. I'll try to recap in point form, but I'll assume that my TV is fubar?

1. When I bought the remote during a weekend visit to my girlfriend's house, all I did was learn keys for the DVD player (Philips DVP642), and for the DVD Recorder (Liteon-5001).

2. I had assigned the functions of the DVD Recorder to the VCR key.

3. No programming search or learning at all was done for the TV since my GF's TV was a different model than mine.

4. After arriving at home, I tried the only available code in the manual 0761, and after that failed...

5. I tried learning the TV commands one by one, and that stalled at ~4 commands so.....

6. I started pressing keys to see what would happen. Which is when disaster struck.

I never did a code search until after my TV went down. At which point I tried doing a code search in the naive belief that I might be able to restore the damage :). I did notice an interesting thing though; I've got my DVD Recorder feeding into my TV via an S-video cable, and the picture from this looks better, although still utterly unacceptable than the picture from the TV tuner. So I assume that the TV tuner has also been affected in addition to it's capacity to display video. Using the TV tuner results in a much more garbled, squashed picture with no colour.

And I guess I should mention that my remote was an open, albeit resealed box. Which doesn't really help anything....

Eh, so I guess I'm open to advice about buyying a new 27 inch TV

thanks again

Tom
Post 8 made on Sunday January 9, 2005 at 23:17
ofafan
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On 01/09/05 19:31 ET, Thomas Davie said...
1. When I bought the remote during a weekend visit
to my girlfriend's house, all I did was learn
keys for the DVD player (Philips DVP642), and
for the DVD Recorder (Liteon-5001).

When you did this, you may have nearly filled the learning memory yourself, depending on how many keys you learned. The OFA remotes have a limited capacity for learning, and the learning memory is stated for all devices, cumulative. NOT x amount for this device, x amount for that device.

6. I started pressing keys to see what would happen.
...the naive belief that I might be able to restore
the damage :).

Don't consider all lost just yet. With the TV on and the remote in TV device, start this sequence:
SET
000
(see what, if anything, happens)
SET
001
etc.

There are 256 possible codes, so try 000 through 256. (Someone will be a stickler for detail here and point out that that makes 257, but I am not sure if 000 or 256 is a legitimate command, so humor me.)
Jim
OP | Post 9 made on Monday January 10, 2005 at 01:17
Thomas Davie
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On 01/09/05 23:17 ET, ofafan said...
Don't consider all lost just yet. With the TV
on and the remote in TV device, start this sequence:
SET
000
(see what, if anything, happens)
SET
001
etc.

There are 256 possible codes, so try 000 through
256. (Someone will be a stickler for detail here
and point out that that makes 257, but I am not
sure if 000 or 256 is a legitimate command, so
humor me.)
Jim

Thanks for responding, although I am unsure as to whether you mean the OFA remote (I don't have a set key, but rather a P key, it being the Radioshack 15-2138 recised model), or the original Advent remote. If you mean the OFA remote, do you mean press the set(P) key, release it and then press xxx?

thank you

Tom
Post 10 made on Monday January 10, 2005 at 07:27
johnsfine
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5,159
On 01/09/05 23:17 ET, ofafan said...
Don't consider all lost just yet. With the TV
on and the remote in TV device, start this sequence:
SET
000
(see what, if anything, happens)
SET
001
etc.

Based on previous threads on this subject I think the TV is really wrecked beyond any possibility to correcting via IR signals.

Certainly there is no simple signal which will get it back to normal. Maybe there is some signal that will get it into some maintenance mode, where if you knew how the maintenance mode worked and you knew correct values you could fix multiple individual settings to get the TV back to healthy. But odds are you couldn't do that even if you had all the required information, and of course you actually have none of the required information.
Post 11 made on Monday January 10, 2005 at 07:58
ofafan
Founding Member
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249
On 01/10/05 01:17 ET, Thomas Davie said...
Thanks for responding, although I am unsure as
to whether you mean the OFA remote (I don't have
a set key, but rather a P key, it being the Radioshack
15-2138 recised model), or the original Advent
remote. If you mean the OFA remote, do you mean
press the set(P) key, release it and then press
xxx?

thank you

Tom

Yes, the P key. If everything was well with your TV, this is a way to test advanced codes without having to assign them to a button. It is also a way to send a code that you don't need often enough to assign to a button.

Since your TV seems broken already, and you will be returning it anyway, there seems little harm in taking the 5-10 minutes to go through the EFC codes and chance finding something that will be useful.

As we used to say in the military, "If it ain't broke, fix it 'till it is!"
Post 12 made on Monday January 10, 2005 at 08:00
ofafan
Founding Member
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249
On 01/10/05 07:27 ET, johnsfine said...
Based on previous threads on this subject I think
the TV is really wrecked beyond any possibility
to correcting via IR signals.

So no harm in trying...

Certainly there is no simple signal which will
get it back to normal.

Why John, what a defeatist attitude! :-)
Post 13 made on Monday January 10, 2005 at 12:04
The Robman
Loyal Member
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On 01/09/05 23:17 ET, ofafan said...
There are 256 possible codes, so try 000 through
256. (Someone will be a stickler for detail here
and point out that that makes 257, but I am not
sure if 000 or 256 is a legitimate command, so
humor me.)

Anything above 255 is simply a repeat of the 000-255 codes, so EFC 256 sends the same signal as EFC 000, EFC 257 sends the same signal as EFC 001, etc, etc.

I tend to agree with John. It sounds like Tom accidentally sent an "EEPROM RESET" command to his TV, which would have cleared the TV's EEPROM's contents. This is somewhat similar to issuing a 981 reset on your remote. Once you've done the reset, there's no simple 9xx command that will restore it to how you had it, therefore you would need to re-load everything manually.

The fault here lies squarely with Advent so it should totally be up to them to make it right, at their expense.
Rob.
[Link: hifi-remote.com]
Post 14 made on Monday January 10, 2005 at 13:17
johnsfine
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On 01/10/05 12:04 ET, The Robman said...
The fault here lies squarely with Advent so it
should totally be up to them to make it right,
at their expense.

A key word in that is "should". My understanding from other threads is that they won't. Since the TV is new enough to return, that makes it the retailer's problem.
OP | Post 15 made on Monday January 10, 2005 at 19:27
Thomas Davie
Long Time Member
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11
I tried all of the codes from 000-256 inclusive. Several had small effects such as pressing a number key, but code 115 caused the screen to go totally black with a horrible screeching noise. The TV would no longer respond to any remote commands, and in fact could not be turned off with the front panel power. I had to physically turn the power bar off, and then back on. This was repeatable.

thanks

Tom
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