Very good points Instalz. I have to admire a guy with your ethic. Theres not a lot out there. The customer always has to be happy. And sometimes, especially when your first starting out, you might have to lose a few bucks to fix an error, a mistake, whatever, to keep that customer happy. But most people will see, and recognize this, and even though they may not cover it, they will remember it, and your name will be used in good terms among them and their friends.

"Marketing is nothing next to solid relationship"

Instalz, great points. I skipped it the first time thru cause it was too long until I read the little ones after...

Referrals are really where it's at once you get going. People can trust you for a good reason. We don't let worker dudes on our property unless they're referred by honest, competent friends or neighbors. We still get burned but less than the dumbells who open the yellow pages with their eyes closed and call the first number their finger lands on.

of course, don't get me started about the liscenced and referred pool company that destroyed our back yard these last 4 months (and still have to chip out and replace the brand new plaster. I'm going to break my teeth I'm so angry..)

Now you've done it.

I didn't even catch your statement when I wrote mine.

One of the biggest challenges with this industry is that so many people can do or know about parts of what we do. One can hook up a DVD player, so why not full home audio distribution.

Cable and sat guys can get a signal to a TV, so why not a theater or home distribution. A sales guy can mentally or on paper put together 90% of a system, but can he make it work? The alarm guy can run wires for alarm, so why not everything else.

There is enough public information out there to hang many installers, which makes us all look bad. We have all come into a job where the client has been burned, and gives us little or no slack. How can you blame him?

What pecentage of installers actually go to the big shows (Cedia/Ehx...) and work on getting educated. I bet it is a very small percentage of us who take the time and energy to make ourselves better. I let the alarms guys do what they do on our projects. We sub out the Crestron programming, because I have not mastered programming enough to be able to hand a system off to a client and feel like they will get the best money can buy.

I have no idea what the answer is, that is why I popped off with the Wesley comment. He seems to think he knows the answer.

MAY be?

Now that is funny....



And for what it's worth, I've seen some really GREAT(being sarcastic in case you don't pick up on it) work done by a local, high level "certified" company.

There will always be those who do bad work in this industry, just as there will always be bad doctors and crooked lawyers.

Jusy the way things work.....

Another thought I just had about whether a person should undertake something they don't know much about, and I think a few others touched on this, is what are the possible ramifications if you screw it up? I just saw a thread about DSL. Didn't even read it. If someone messes with DSL (which I sure don't claim to be an expert on), it seems to me the worst that can happen is a few days of static on the customers line if the installer doesn't know how to install a filter. The type of thing I am talking about is when I see people designing entire systems that just plain out don't know what they are doing.

I've seen them for years. It was actually reading some threads here that finally set me off on the rant. I just couldn't believe some comments I've read here lately. No, I'm not talking about people who think exotic cables sounds better. I think a person who does damn good work could suffer from that delusion ;-) :-).

This issue is only going to worsen as more companies try to grab that piece of pie with their new "control" systems. Every company now has a media server, switchers, amps and of course the touchscreen with a slick looking interface. They (manufacturers) actually believe their own hype about garanteed simplistic programing "that just works" (count how many times you hear that line from the millions of venders at cedia about their new software). Of course these companies are jumping in, they are told how simple it is, ( "it will do 99% of what Crestron and AMX can do") they see potential profit and think that corners can be cut because these great new systems are plug and play. While it may not take long for some to learn their lesson, there is always that next young buck with that gleam in his (or her) eye thinking to themself "man, that stereo I put in my car, and the Bose 321 that my dad had me put in was really easy, I should do this for a living!"

Educate yourself and your clients about proper system design and thats pretty much all you can do until were replaced by the next generation of schmucks.

Oh man that is a good post and SO TRUE Moe, especially the part about all the new manufacturers who will promise how easy there stuff is to set up. Plug and play of course ;-). I figure any time a manufacturer gives a time estimate on what it will take to install product xxx I multiple it by xxx. It is something else to think about what we will be seeing in these coming years as this industry explodes. And all the new flash in the pan manufacturers will set up all the installers who can't get the real lines (of course it's always worked that way for years anyhow - but I can see it getting 10 times worse).

The good (sarcasm) news is Microsoft has been selling defective software for years and it's never stopped them and of course the computer industry wants to turn our industry into a part of theirs ;-).

QQQ
We do see some really basic or common sense questions here, and that is pretty bizarre I agree.

It really bums me out to be waiting in line at one of my local distributors' waiting to load up my stuff... see a nice van with nice graphics pull up out front... and there is some yayhoo that comes in and is asking the sales guy inside... "How many watts these speakers got?" or... 'Uh, what's impedance matching???"... or "Hey ain't BOSE the best"?
And like you say, these guys are out there doing large installations, they have little or no experience or knowledge, and all look like jokers that you would never let date your daughter!

But the genuis' that have put those hilarious knew adds together comparing mac with microsoft. Man, that's gotta be the death nail. How can a company bounce back from a commercial stating the obvious?

There are so many key elements between success and failure in this business. One of them is that our work isn't like bailing hay. Every $%#@ Job is different. There is no way to carbon copy cookie cutter everything we do. Why? because every house is different, one piece of gear throws a whole design off and every client has unique tastes. Think of all the different kinds of bolts and anchors and supports we need to have on the truck just to be prepared to mount anykind of plasma anywhere. And then there's the improvising we do that is a talent in itself - it takes a certain type of person that is willing to take a moment and sit and think through the design and logistics before even mentioning the concept to a client.
All the majoring in minor things.. every day.

It's not like being a doctor or an attorney - I've never got a dime for practicing. We're paid for results not hours.

and we love it (most days)

This post has turned out some really interesting points of view. As I stated previously, a huge problem for me is learning something new, and then not using what I have learned for 3 or 4 months. So much time has gone by that you have to re-learn it. Steve, your right about the parts that we have to carry around in our vans as you never kknow what your going to get into.
A friend of mine was looking in my van the other day, he picks up a carpet tucker and says "what hell is this" I said a carpet tucker. He's like, what the hell do you need that for, you install sound systems? I just laughed, and said "you'd be surprised.
As I said, this isn't an easy business, and that's why I love it. Everybody can't do what we do. Sure, people will try it, but most can't survive it.
That's why people hire us. If you prewire a home, and miss something, your srewed, if your doing retro work, and cut into power or mess up a lath and plaster job, your screwed. It's not just about knowing your electroncs or knowing ohm's law, or being able to resight the NEC, it's about the entire package period. By the way, I don't know everything about electronics, and definately can't resight the NEC, but by god when the job is done, it's done. LOL....
Have a good day guys. It's Saturday at 6:00 a.m. and I gotta hit the road and go do some retro work... GET R DONE....

Every $%#@

I am not sure I agree with that statement.
In the last 4-5 years, I have been able to cookie-cut systems time and time again. Minor changes within the same manufacturers product line still gives me the same predictable results. Sure the houses are different, but ussually by number of rooms. By repeating the same systems over and over again, it just gets more refined with each one we do. There have been numerous articles in the last couple of years in the trade magazines that have been echoing this sentiment.
This mentality has made my job so much easier and my company more profitable.
It also helps that we are only in a couple of subdivisions and we have done a couple of real nice systems that our customers allow us unrestricted access to them to show them off. So we take our new customers in and show them how it works and the response is always the same. "Thats what I want in my house."
Works like a charm.

I agree with your statement 100%. When our state requires it, I will be first in line.

Yesterday, I was in a house talking to an electrician buddy of mine and noticed that the low voltage company that prewired the house prewired the PRIMARY smoke detectors system with 22/4!!!! WTF!!!! We are talking about life safety here folks. By the time you have 10-15 smokes in the house, do you think it will work? I wouldn't want to bet on it.
The builder of this house is an old builder of mine that we decided to walk away from, because it was always about price and bending down and taking it up the A&S. So he hires a new company with the nice vans and decent shirts and yet in my eyes, just another hack operation. And yet the builder has no clue.