Our industry has a MAJOR problem with being dominated by incompetence. I read a good question the other day here from someone that asked what they should know about installing speakers in plaster/lath. That's a good question that I can see a "pro" who has not worked in such conditions asking. But half the questions I see asked here from so-called "pros" (who often have an atitude to boot about consumers not using "pros") indicate that the person asking the question has NO BUSINESS working in peoples homes. How the hell can someone be selling 5 or 6 figure systems that has to come on the forum and ask the most BASIC questions.

The spirit of the saying that there is no such thing as a stupid question is correct...TO A POINT. If I hear someone asking what the difference is between type A blood and type B blood that's fine. If I hear my heart surgeon ask the question I'm going to tell him to go f*ck himself :-) as I head to the nearest regulatory agency and media outlet to report him.

Flame away.

For this reason I think CEDIA's attempts to create certification levels and become a certification body is probably a good thing even though it may also be political and self-serving. No, it sure won't guarantee competence but I do think it will help.

How would you have a potential client distinguish between a pro and non-pro? How would a pro be recognized in order to receive the treatment accorded said pro?

I've been all for state or local licensing and/or CEDIA certification for a while for this very reason. Others here are against it.

Unfortunately Q, anyone with a truck (or SCION xB for that matter) can by from AVAD, ADI or distributor of choice and be considered a "PRO". I completely agree-our industry is rife with incompetence.

I am not sure how the CEDIA thing is going to help matters when the general public has NO CLUE what CEDIA is. Heck, I bet 99.9999% of our past clients couldn’t tell you what CEDIA is. To make matters worse, CEDIA training isn’t even recognized by the state/national licensing agencies, so what good does it do.

My first post was more of a rant than a desire to debate CEDIA certification. My answer is that the more education that is required to call yourself something the more likely the person that received the education at least has some minimal level of competence. And the more difficult that education and/or certification is to achieve the more likely the level of competence will be higher.

How would a consumer know? There never is any way for the consumer to know. It takes hard work and research and even then the consumer may make a mistake just as you or I may make a mistake when choosing a surgeon we think is good. But at least with the surgeon I have some expectation that he has at least achieved SOME level of comptency or he can't call himself a surgeon (unless he's breaking the law).

Whether one is or is not pro union the fact is that when I work on union jobs I typically notice a much higher level of average comptency. So while incompetency is rampant in the construction field, large commerical buildings are almost always union and the construction on them IS also almost always of higher quality. I would hope that certification will help our industry to improve the situation on SOME level (just as unions require training and schooling).

Take electricians as an example. Ask yourself the question if things would be even better if anyone could call themselves an electrician. The average electrician may be incompetent but the norm would be FAR worse with no certification...and is in those areas that don't require any certification. I would also make the point that one of the biggest causes in my *opinion* of incomptence in the electrical field is that in many areas many firms are allowed to hire anyone as long as they have on "certified" electrician to inspect the work. Again, I think the higher you set the bar the more you help to fight incomptence. I would gladly sit in a class taking a test for a few days to achieve a meaningful certification. Based on what I see soming out of CEDIA, I do think the situation is getting better and intend to do just that.

Again, there are NO easy answers. I just want to see things improve.

Interesting you bring this up. I needed a little plumbing work recently. The first physician I went to recommended a new procedure using robotics, but had only done five of them. I checked the prodecure, it was accepted as a good thing by the industry at large, and then went looking for someone that had done more. Found a guy that had done 260 of them, and I became 261. It was only a bonus that the Pro from Dover didn't keep me waiting as long in the exam room.

I bring this up because there is no resource I'm aware of for consumers to review for the efficacy of one CI person's recommendation vs. another, nor any way to find out how many of the proposed systems an installer has done. Most consumers wouldn't think to ask, I would guess.


While being far from pro-union, I have noted the same thing.


You and me both, brother.

I disagree with your first comment, and agree with the rest of your post.

To say there is no way for a consumer to know a competent professional from an incompetent hobbyist/diyr assumes an ignorant client. A minimally informed client can ask questions like:
1) Is there any disadvantages to installing subwoofers in-wall or in-cabinet, and if so, what are they?; and
2) Is there any disadvantages to installing speakers in-ceiling, and if so, what are they?

If the installer hasn't got the answers at his fingertips, he's not up to the task.

Incompetent installers/hacks do not give the whole industry a bad name. They give hacks a bad name, and necessitate the need for stringent licensing and certification requirements for the rest of us, so that the unknowing consumer is not so easily duped.

That was me asking about the lathe/plaster ... glad my question made the cut! ;)

I agree with you, though - have been called in to handle cleanup duty on some pretty freakin *bad* installs (but i'm sure there are other threads on that topic!)

OTOH, when I was starting in this business, I did ask my share of basic questions - so do please consider that, as well. For instance, I'm looking at spec'ing out my first projector install (yes, been in biz 2yrs and haven't done a proj install yet - surprising, I know!), and have been asking some pretty beginner questions on this topic over @ IP.

netarc: If I can politely correct your spelling (as was already indicated in replies to your post):

A lathe is a carpenter's tool for turning wood, whereas lath is strips of wood used as substrate for plaster coatings (decades ago). Just a friendly jfyi. Cheers.

oops, my bad - thanks!

That's why I said "it takes hard work and research". When I said "there never is any way for the consumer to know" and "it takes hard work and research and even then the consumer may make a mistake" what I meant is that there is no gurantee ever that a title or certification gurantees competence. So like Theaterworks you have to do due diligence. But even then, if you are dealing with someone in a field that is not your own area of expertise, there is the possibilty that a really good "presenter" may snooker you. I'm sure we have all seen it. A good example that comes to mind is an architect I have worked with that has great "bedside manner" and is almost always liked by their Client's. I'm sure they come with great references. It would take an incredible amount of research on the part of the Client to discover that most contractors and inspectors think said architect is an incomptent boob whose designs usually have to be reworked and lack crucial construction details. The evidence IS there, and when I look at their plans I say "geesh" because I know what a good set of plans looks like, but a person could think they are doing due diligence and get completely taken.

That's a really good point and I've asked my fair share of questions too. It's a grey area and I'm not sure there's a clear cut line. Hopefully the spirit of my post is not lost though. If someone is asking "what's a contact closure" they probably aren't ready to take on an automation job yet :-).

i've been doing this stuff for 13 years and sometimes you just have a brain fart and ask a stupid question.

ed

The first step is having an accredidation that is recognized by a majority of installers. If it is CEDIA, so be it. Or, better yet, a non-profit organization to represent installers could be created. The accredidation should contain both a written portion and a practicum portion, where certain skills would have to be shown. I.e., install different types of low-volt wiring near receptacles, wire VC's, etc.

The second step would be to do some presentations to local AIA groups and inform them about the problems with incorrectly installed systems. All commercial projects and most larger residential projects will have an Architect.

Eventually this knowledge will start to trickle down to the tract home builders and then to the general homeowner. It will be a long process, but the custom installation business is really still pretty young.

Just my thoughts!

CJ