I'm sorry Wire Nuts but I'm going to side with Instalz on this one.

I make every attempt to keep the core system the same but one client variable can change the system dramatically...either by wanting to integrate another system, (lighting, security, surveillance, etc.) or suddenly wanting video distribution. I can go on a while with this.

Getting back to the original thread...

Do you think the seasoned butt crack showing plumber never makes a mistake? or the white trash cigarette butt smoking tin knocker? or the long dirty stringy haired framer, or the foul mouthed (well, all trades all foul mouthed) hypocritical electrician?

How many people did I just offend or piss off?

I don't see the problem here. We always use the same type of subsystems (lighting, security, surveillance,

Every time the subject of who owns the control system software comes up and I trot out the usual answers I also leave off one of the main reasons I dislike supply the code to an end user. Most residential contractors I have come across I barely competant. Most cannot code and will not pay for the code. They can copy signals and cut and paste and perhaps they can do enough to get their final check. I do not wish to see incompetants who can sell have more sales ammunition with which to pursuade a client that they are the right guys for them. It's not that someone else could not write the same modules I write it's that most residential contracting firms could not.

This is a very difficult industry, and not merely becuase most of its participants are untrained or self trained, uncertified and often unskilled in many of the necessary skill sets and because there are no common stardards equipment manufacturers obey. This means that we must always "own" subsystems over which we have no control and which change too frequently. Not only must one understand RF, basic EE, IR and communications, audio and video signal transmission, acoustics, equalization and video calibration, programming, software languages and understanding communications protocols, networking, voice communciations, security, CCTV, and on and on. Then there are the construction skills required such as where to drill a hole in sturctual members, how to mount and rig, use of power tools, ability to snake and fish wire, and knowlege of wire itself. Anyone able to define what the "velocity of propergation" specification is coaxial cable means and why it might be important? How about surge protection, grounding, ground loops? We are, as someone earlier posted, generalists but unfortunately, even the best of us are often just barely competant to perfrom the tasks we do. But when a MSO decides to change its cable boxes, or to supply insufficient signal or to change the IRD it is we who must deal with that change or fix the problem. Yet we do not have access to those designing their products nor do we have access to the in house engineers at most cable and satellite systems.

I am less sanguin then most others posting on standards. I shall grant the point that certification of any type is merely a minimum set of standards and not a guarantee that one firm is not inferior to an other. But I have seen things this past year that I never thought I'd see with respect to Lutron and Crestron installations that leads me to conclude that in search of sales manufacturers have permitted less than qualified individuals to install systems that they are simply not qualified to install. Basic rules of design, such as insuring that the recomended wire and minimum power is present to run the system has been violated. I have always felt that there most every audiophile salons and most non salons that sell control systems ought to have their fanchises pulled. How many of you who run data wire for RS-485 communciations bus understand the engineering specifications of that wire and how it might or might not be wise to use for a 485 com link? If it's good enough for Ethernet must it not be good enough for a keypad or control system com bus? What inspector understands security well enough to enforce its codes let alone the rest of low voltage? How is it that most security tests lump in commerical and residential jobs as if there is anything in common?

Once upon a time only the best firms entered the automation field. I used to tell people to look for a Crestron, AMX or Lutron contractor in their area and hire that firm. Now those firms could care less as their reps sign anyone who can pursade someone to fork over money for these systems. Many stores cut their teeth on the abilty to pursuade consumers to purchase expensive wire and equipment. But a poorly installed speaker meant that the fabulous speakers might not sound their best. But a poorly installed control system has otherissues. I would hope that manufacturers did not just rely on sales but also insisted on rigorous training for anyone who was permitted to sell their gear. As systems rely less on programming knowledge and become "easier" to install they also require new sets of skills. Networking knowledge and troubleshooting becomes more important.

On the other hand, even the general knowlege that we need is not that hard to come by if one only tries. I am not certain how important it is to know that induction and capacitance are inversely related. I do think it is important to know that RF is negatively sloped and base2 ( as in 2,4,8,16,32 way splitters. Thre is no such thing as a 3 or 6 way splitter--and I could care less that many of you install them ). It really is not a very difficult concept to grasp that 30h 48d and ASCII "0" are the same value and that it matters not a bit which one of those values you send in a serial string ( so when you see a protocol that says you must send the string in hex what they are telling you is that you must send the hex values in that string. You could use any format so long as the values corresponded to the hex value. ).

Alan

Holy Sh*t Alan, I'm lost... Off topic, when I went through cable splicing & maintenance school back in 1984, we learned all sorts of cool formulas, and learned how to use every new piece of equipment on the market, Learned how to plot graphs to find air leaks on the old lead cable systems, I got out in the field, and the guys who had been splicing and troubleshooting forever had a saying. "If it touches, it talks" How's that for simplifying it?
Seriously though, hats off to you Alan for all of the knowledge that you have gained.
That's one of the reasons that I come to this forum so often. To be humbled... and to learn....

oops I just quoted myself.

I'm exagerating. We're mostly midfi. Nearly every one of the 200 URC 850 systems have the same "looking" configuration and operate virtually the same for each client. We sell mostly Yamaha multizone systems with Niles & PSB. TV's are generally Mitsu DLP or Pioneer Plasma. Some systems are a slam dunk. But that really only on a mostly good day.

Some already have a cheezy Samsung anything, an HK receiver, semi broken stuff etc.

And the rooms (with their acoustics and textures), attics or other ways of distributing the wiring..

It's funny, my van has a carpet kicker too that I pull out 3 times a year. It's a must have.

Other tool or parts that surprise the uninitiated:
concrete grinder
bolt cutters
drywall putty
small paint brush
5" hole saw
50 pounds of nuts, bolts, nails, splitters, fittings, bushings, anchors, mollys, wirenuts, crimp caps
200 pounds of various types of patch cables etc
lap top
1 to 5' concrete and wood drill bits
a cool magnet wall fish thing
250 to 800 pounds of various types of wire (depending on the day)
unibits
spl meter
hammer drill
masks and flashlights
socket set
jigsaw, sawsall
vacuum
laser level
Dremel
toners, testers
wall plates galour
drop cloths
whole slue of leviton inserts
5 ladders
first aid kit
business cards
a place to sit and drive

Oh yeah.. Snips, cresent wrench, hammer, cordless drill and a coat hanger..

And there are still some days when I really need to think about something to make it look like I wasn't ever there.

Steve,
Ok, I like to think that I am not part of the uninitiated, but I am curious. When do you use a concrete grinder and bolt cutters?

Every once in a while I'll cut a channel in the floor for wiring beneath carpet or tile. Particularly when the client is pulling carpet and putting in tile and wires are existing in the pad. Cutting out VC and speaker openings in block/stucco homes..

Bolt cutters are to remove the lock on the Cable company's box at condos etc. makes it a single service call deal. You call the Cable co. later to let 'em know the box is missing a lock. I haven't needed to do this for a few years. I guess I could use the hacksaw..

what do you use?

Great comments...
Here is one for the Sleeze of the year firm.
Once a project was finished, the Salesman would show up, go over everything with the client, collect the last payment and leave. Head to the closest coffee shop and wait for the call. Before they left they would always somehow disconnect a cable somewhere. Sure enough the client would call his cell phone with the "I don't know what happened, but something has gone wrong". "Geee, I'm almost home, No problem I will turn around and head back to check it out for you" They would sit for awhile and finish their coffee, the saleman would return to the site, go in and be the hero of the day, not letting them know exactly what was wrong, but more about the fact that he was here and fixed it.
The other sad part, these people actually were agreeing to buy systems with "good" in ceiling speakers, and "quality" DVD players etc. In other words they were paying
800.00 for in ceiling speakers that cost about 85.00 pr and other foolish prices.

Back onto the other part of this topic, certification. It's a tough one. We need it, it has to be recognised, but it also has to mean something. Cedia might be on the right track, but they also fail. Installer level 1 doesn't really mean anything (other than you paid the money, and you know one connector from another) So if Cedia becomes a household name, any CI firm with level 1 instantly becomes a "pro"?? It was a lot tougher to learn and pass the Panasonic phone system course, but that wouldn't mean anything to most resi clients.
I really think that certifiaction in each disipline would make more sense. A client hiring someone to do everything in their home would be better served knowing the firm has mastered everything they want. Just because someone has been doing Home theatres for many years doesn't mean they know anything about a lighting control system. Yet people today see $$$$'s and take on jobs they have no business being involved with. And unsuspecting clients believe the sales pitch and start forking over the cash.
Many of us have spent $$'s and conciderable time taking training sessions to better our abilities, or to enable us to sell certain lines. As mentioned above by Alan, companies like Lutron and others are starting to loose focus and allow far too many "unqualified" people into the club. I have no problem with another company being trained to deal with Lutron or AMX systems, as long as they have a track record in this industry and are not signing up because they have a project.

My train of thought is leaving the station without me...

About the overstuffed well-stocked van:

I've worked with a few beginning installers who have wondered aloud why I have so much shit in my van. Then we will be on a job at a house in the middle of the avocado groves and I will be able to go pull out a stereo mini to stereo mini cable, or some such.

When this comes up with a client, I tell them that I am an average audio/video installer, with a wrecking bar, a laptop, and everything in between in the van. Right now I have a small table-top drill press in the back of the van, and MAN would it crack me up to have a need to drag that out on a job!

Just to make a point about the title.. the word professional can litteraly be defined as someone who is payed to performe a service.
"Performed by persons receiving pay"

Hookers are "Profesionals" do they need certifications? :)

So to say we are not pros... we are only not pros if we don't get paid.

Forget about the whole def of "Having or showing great skill"

Money money money

I think you took a wrong turn about a half mile back. You can find directions to the grammar forum here www.mapquest.com.

WTF did I miss?

I consider myself a professional because I charge for a service. But, that doesn't mean I'm competent.

That being said, if some kind of solid certification becomes viable, I'll likely get it. Only if everyone else does too.

I'm all for your point BigPapa...

So what about the companies that get "grandfathered" in?

Here in NYC any alarm company that was in existence or in the "social club" (NYBFAA or NBFAA) before they lobbied for a licensing exam to weed out the small guy is excluded from taking the exam.

That's just one example.

Aaah...gotta love this country.

Just have not needed to do grinding in concrete floors. I just tell the builders or homeowners what needs to be done and they have it done for us.
We have not done an install in a condo in probably 8-9 years.
And I always try to sell my cust on sat service rather than cable.

QQQ I find it very hard to beleive that in your long and endouring experience you never had a question which answer was right in front of you, but due to your workload or whatever someone just said "look at the manual" and you have been enlighted.

Your post are very rewarding and as for me who is new to this industry and is trying to become a professional in all factors of this industry will continue to read and hope that my questions are not stupid.

I'm currently signing up for the CEDIA Certification, but from reading it seems that it may not be worth it. Is it? or is this a stupid question?