How do you (us) people feel about giving end users access to industry vendors and possibly hurting a fellow professionals business?

Was your message prompted by my post requesting information on vendors? -Carl

Carl, I don't know what prompted Shoe to open this thread, but he asks the question that occurred to me when I read your post. I have some hard questions that are probably offensive, but only to people who have never had to consider them in the light of staying in business or "retiring."

What business are you in? Do you feel protective of others in your business nationwide? Frankly, I am surprised that you got such instant open answers to your post! I kinda thought the guys who visit here would be a little hesitant to expose, nationwide, part of their ability to be profitable enough to stay in business. In doing so, they also exposed my ability to stay in business....

How would you feel if someone wrote an email to a website such as this that relates to your business, asking how to get around paying part of what keeps you and your fellow businesspeople in business? Remember that anybody in the world can go to this site and look it up....

In general, we need to make money to stay in business. Profit on wire helps keep the phones going, helps pay the rent, and helps cover all that other stuff that has to be paid before we can take money home ourselves. There is a sub-class of installers who can do all right without such profit; these are the trunk-slammers who will either NOT be in business when you need them again, or who will have to make some profit on parts, not just installation labor, just to be there the next time you need to ask them a question (remember: something has to pay for their time when you need to ask that question in six months).


Imagine that you are waiting at the Parts counter at Pep Boys (car parts and repair services). A guy comes in and explains to the counter man that he is going to do some work on his car, he is reading and learning how to do it, he is going to do it himself no matter what, so anything that the counter person tells him will not affect Pep Boys' bottom line. Then he asks where he can get all the car parts that he needs, wholesale. Oh, yeah, this conversation is being transcribed and written down on a web site for car enthusiasts and repair people, a site that people visit from all over the world.

See why I am surprised that you got such quick and open answers?

Ernie

I doubt any of this will hurt anyones business. My experience is anyone on these type of websites tend to be DIY type people who most likely wouldn't use your services to begin with. You could argue this site takes business away from programmers. This site is meant for the home hobbiest. The clientele that want AMX/Crestron type systems don't care nor have any interest in DIY even if they inside info. They may try to beat you up on price but aren't all customers in any type of business like that? I can print out dealer invoice on a new car I found on the net. It hasn't stopped the dealers from selling cars. Remember you guys are selling service,knowledge and experience. There is no substitute for that.

I suspected that some people who are custom installers might think that there was a problem posting answers to my question.

To answer your question about what I do for a living, I am in the executive placement right now, but I have been in the custom IT business. My company (that I founded) supplied turn-key point of sale solutions for the restaurant industry. We provided hardware and software. So I have some intimate familiarity with the downward pressure being applied by customers who could buy things wholesale.

In the case of my question, I think it is a bit different.

First, I will thank all who offered help again, THANKS much guys.

Second, I posted VERY plainly that I was not a professional, but have professional abilities (to a lesser degree than most of you, obviously) so that those who chose to answer would know who and what they were dealing with. I could easily have pretended to be something I am not.

Third, I am resourceful enough to know how to READ and SEARCH all of the posts here to gather information needed to make intelligent decisions about the correct parts and manufacturers. I am also resourceful enough to know how to use a business license and tax ID to buy from whomever I need to. I just thought that most the people here would be nice enough to save me a WHOLE lot of time and energy by answering a direct question.

Fourth, I realize that my worth and my companies worth in the IT arena as well as the worth of most of the installers here is their knowledge, problem solving ability, and professionalism. It is not dependent on the small markup that they make in the difference from wholesale to retail, or warehouse discount center.

Have you heard of FRY'S? You can buy LOTS of cheap computer parts there. Was I scared to offer that name up to customer's who asked me, no. Most don't have the knowledge to buy what they need to get the job done, much less design an appropriate solution. Most of the guys here could pound me in the dust with their knowledge, but some couldn't. I did a whole-house stereo install for my Dad some years ago using Niles gear, so I have a bit of talent.

The job that I am doing is really small, and there is no way that I would ever hire a pro to do it. Not even sure if any of y'all are in Atlanta. I have been posting on this site for about 3 years. I believe that my profile here contains my email address, but anyone that thought they were "giving away the store" could easily have asked and sent the info via private communication.

If you and Shoe were trying to imply that I did anything wrong in asking the question, or that anyone who answered did something wrong, I think you don't value your collective skills enough, and you are just plain wrong. I respect the job y'all have, in fact I really enjoy dabbling in it myself. I have a Pronto, which is pretty freakin' tricked out, I have X10 controls, and a boat load of HT gear. I bought it, installed it, programmed it, and maintain it all myself.

I appreciate your concern, but I'm no threat. Peace - Carl

Ernie:

I understand your points but I think you are overstating the threat here. It's not like the guy got a quote from someone and now is contacting the compaines that were quoted and trying to buy direct. He just wants some parts for God's sake. Lots of the stuff for structured wiring can now be purchased at Home Depot. can you honestly say you don't occaisonally DIY just like Carl?

ECHOSLOB:

I am with you 110%.

Carl:

Good luck with your project and thanks for the thoughtful reply.

Carl, It was not only your post that prompted my thread but other posts as well. You did label yourself a "prosumer" and that does not "sound" like a consumer though you obviously are. A do it yourself person can get what you need at Home Depot. As an IT pro you have acess to vendors that can supply your needs. The connectors are at Home Depot so except for some technical guidance what else is there. This is a place for professionals presumably to help each other. Some may choose to help somebody who isn't a pro but why should I tell you everything you need to cut out a retailer. Consumer's are how professionals make living. I think labeling yourself a prosumer is disengenuous. I do not consider you a threat but I appreciate people who don't purport themselves to be something they are not. If it wasn't to bypass a legitamate retailer what was the purpose of your post?
I am not here to tell people what is right or wrong but I hope to enlighten other professionals on this site that sometimes helping a "prosumer" may take some elses customer away. BTW, I had never heard of Fry's until your post. Thanks for the info, I'll check it out. Maybe I can save 2 cents and pull my business from a trusted vendor.....NOT
Ernie, thanks for the response. I hope other pros will respond to this thread as well as this is a question posed to professionals

This message was edited by Shoe on 09/22/02 15:48.08.

Since this thread has become about Carl, I must agree with Q and Echoslob. The guy was asking for the best place to get parts, I don't think he had any intention to get an installer.

Anthony, this thread relates to Carl but I was just looking to talk to some pros who pay rent and bussiness expenses and provide training to technicians and try to make a profit and a living at the end of the day. Perhaps Daniel can start a forum foir amateurs to share harmless information.

At the end of the day these same people aren't going to call you anyway. What's the point about whining over business you are never going to get?


|Perhaps Daniel can start

He did it is called Remote central you should check it out some time. DUH!!!!!!

If the free flow of information offends you last time I checked this was the internet. What do you fail to understand? Maybe cedia has a forum and you can talk about your secret decoder rings there in private with like minded people.


I am going to take a wild guess but if you had any kind of successful business you wouldn't be worried about this kind of nonsense. I own a business and some of my products can be bought at Home Depot cheaper then I can purchase wholesale from my supplier. So what? You don't see me whining about it. I have gone down other avenues and never looked back. hell I even tell people what to buy when I see them buying the wrong thing at the Depot. Tell me who is going to win more people over. Helping someone and winning them over or just bitching about something that is out of your hands anyway? Look in the mirror that is why you are not successful. RANT OVER and yes loser attitudes do piss me off in case you were wondering SHOE.


This message was edited by ECHOSLOB on 09/22/02 18:20.10.

Well, I don't know about you guys, but I pay $13,000 a year in insurance for our 3 trucks, $11,000 a year in parking tickets - the cost of doing business in Manhattan- workmans comp, rent, $2M liability insurance, cell & office phones, training, taxes etc, etc, etc. So I need to make a substantial profit on everything we do including parts and wire? Do I think this is the proper forum for end users to find out wholesale prices on our products? No.

That information is readily available all over the net and I don't resent anyone going to those places, buying whatever they want and installing it. As others have said, those people are not our customers anyway.

So if I'm mistaken and this is indeed a forum for professionals to offer free tips and resources to endusers, can someone please point me to the secret decoder ring forum?

HEY ZONEONE,

As an enduser with a lot of A/V friends BTW I must compliment your post. I think it was level headed and you have a right to resent info being passed around. It is all a matter of how you express yourself. You sound like you are a professional. Others in here don't come across that way. Sorry but I can't help you with secret decoder ring forum but you didn't ask about the secret handshake forum. :)

I didn't want to get into a personal feud but I think someone who knows nothing about a person yet personally insults him is a lowlife. I am an extremely principled person who resents someone misrepresenting themselves which is an issue between me and Carl. Hopefully I can get some more rational feedback. I have nothing against anyone on this site or who tells who what. This thread is an issue for professional custom installers. Duh? Learn to read Echoslob. Your kneejerk response just makes me realize
that there is a lack of ethics in cyberspace and no room for different ideas and oponions with people like you looking in. Do what you want. Reading your recent posts just make me realize that you need what I know a lot worse than I need what you know

C'mon fellas...


Can't we all just get along?

Hi Shoe:

I would be happy to discuss this further but first - why are you stating that Carl misreprepresnted himself? What do you suppose the title of his thread "Kindly help a prosumer....please" meant? He made it abundantly clear that he was a a consumer (that's part of what the term prosumer means) and has been extremely polite. And it would appear you understood that he was not representing himself as a professional in the field, otherwise, why did you start this thread?