RTI burns, and continues todo so. RTI had their place in time and they lost it due to their arrogance and horrendous Tech Support/Products. They are desperately trying to play catch-up and it’s too little too late. I continue to say while they have a sliver of market share they should dissolve and sell what IP they have. Maybe with that money they could start from the ground up.

The problem with rti is they continue to build off of failed technology and products and hope that this time around it will work.

^^^ OUCH ^^^

It's personal and all of the programming interfaces are a moving target. I haven't seen TC2, I much prefer the RTI interface to TC. The new RTI Apex interface is a big step in the right direction.

I haven't had any major issues with RTI support. It seemed to be on a par with URC. To be fair (fortunately) I have very little experience with either support desk.

I'm a fan of RTI.

We've been doing it for a while now, done Elan,URC ,digilinx, looked at savant and control 4.

I have taken over numerous jobs from crestron, amx control 4, the lot. I have also helped on rti jobs where it wasn't fulfilling the customers requirements and the dealers needed help in some area.

Each company has had issues with failure rates. Some more than others. In all circumstances we as a company have been looked after well by most our suppliers.

When I talk to my clients about a control system and they say they've had quotes from xyz and they were saying that control system x isn't as good as ours and bashing it.

My response in these circumstances is that a control system is only as good as the person programming it. I never bash another product, as much as I want to sometimes, but I explain that I have never been able to not do any in RTI and I am offering a service that I feel I excel in. If they feel the other system better suits their needs then by all means.

I like making my projects unique. I like that my interface doesn't look like the other 15 dealers working c4. I like that I can work with whatever product I feel fits the clients needs and offer them the best product available at the time. I like offering solutions.

I don't like working in a sandbox. I don't like not having control over how a system works, when theres a problem I want it to be mine, not because of a limitation of a control system.

I haven't hit that limitation with RTI yet, I have with other control systems.

Here’s the thing that so many dealers don’t understand. GONE are the days where people are willling to have a $3500 programming bill. You guys that are stuck in the 2,000s think you can still win over clients over your neat GUI? It may sure look nice but so many people just don’t give a rats ass. All they care about is if the system works. I would wager to guess that most of you guys that spent days programming a system didn’t win any future work from the GUI but that the system just worked.

I get it, I was in this industry during the GUI hayday where we were all so proud of each other’s interface’s. But with it also came with days of programming. A lot of which I would wager was just donated because it was “cool”.

I think this is why RTI still has any market share remotely left in this industry. Because most of the guys that still peddle the crap are so stuck in your old ways that you fail to realize nobody cares anymore! Your competitor just slung 3 more jobs and has 100x more capability to upgrade the clients in an efficient manner while you were still designing that beautiful single page interface for Mrs. Smith.

RTI clearly sees wizard based programming as the future because they came out with half baked APEX 10 years to late. This is ultimately why crestron pulled out of the residential market. They looked at what it would cost to develop a wizard based program for the sub 250k market and saw that there just isn’t a market there. (Which I think we can all respect)

Not once have I had a client say “gee I wish my interface looked different from my friends interface” if anything it just shows consistency. I dare anyone to make a solid interface like what C4/Elan/savant/urc has and give the client that kind of control in the time we can program an entire system. It just can’t be done.

So to the guys that love interfaces, just know that the time is quickly coming to an end. Also remember that 99.99999998% of clients don’t care to press two
Magic buttons on the interface to get them into a cool splash screen and a way to change settings around. People want simplicity and to have the system come on when they press the source. RTI and you guys need to wake up to that fact that your competition is running circles around you while your programming away.

I shake my head when people still bring up the customizable interface as a plus. I have customers with multiple locations with Elan systems and what they love is the interfaces look and operate the same at each location. One customer has 6 systems in two golf courses, a restaurant, an outdoor party venue, and 2 homes. Before moving him to Elan, every summer I would have to reteach he and his wife how to use their URC remotes at their home here. He didn’t even try to work the system at the club, he would pay me to be on site during parties to make sure there wasn’t a problem. But now that all the systems are the same, no more problems

I don't do a unique design for every customer.

I have designed and changed, and adapted it over the years, just like our website to keep up with the times.

I can have a full 8 zone system up and running in an hour or two with keypads, remotes iPads and iPhone.

If I couldn't do that then I'd be on a different system.

I have had numerous clients say they don't like their control 4 et al designs.

It's all anecdotal in the end. You say this and that, I say that my clients like this and that.

I'm not foolish, if something doesn't work for us we move on, if it costs us money, or clients don't buy what we offer we change. We've been about since the early 80's because we adapt to the technology and cost changes around us.

Every system has its place, if programmed and set up correctly. If it works for you as a company great. The thing with these systems you have to test and try them out to see if they are a good fit for your company and personnel.

I've programmed URC remotes for over a decade.  Aside from some of my early cases, you can walk into any one of my jobs with a CCP remote and control it as they look the same and operate the same minus some differences in what sources they use.  Plain jane TV with a couple sources, or full on home theater with lighting and multiple sources, its the same.

Lord knows I have found fault with TC, but programming with remotes, keypads, iphone, ipad, android will take a half hour tops.  I won't be as harsh as Brendon because, well, he's a dick, what can I say :-D , but I agree that clients do not care for customized GUIs.  Sure you may get that 1 in a thousand that finds it cool, but otherwise, clean, easy to navigate as well as matching on all interfaces if multiples are in the house is what people want.

Stay versed on all platforms and bake up batches of what fits you and your clients the best. This is the perfect time as most devices are on the latest models. As it’s been discussed, all these guys have their pros and cons. Stay fresh on as many as possible so you can always adapt. That being said, C4 is our go to for most clients. You simply must own the network to deploy it in confidence. At the end of the day, it’s not for every job.

We’ve used C4 on every job we’ve done in the past 3 years, ranging from under $5K to around $200K projects. And over the years we’ve gotten much better at “owning the network”. That makes a huge difference.

^^This^^. Hit a "watch TV" button and it works reliably is the 2018 name of the game. What it looks like is irrelevant. My original post has its roots in a PAYCHECK. In short, if I can setup and control a system in 1 day vs. my competitor that takes 4 days (which, upon close inspection looks to be C4 vs. RTI), I'm going to clean the your clock without fail.

In our area, there is a rival business that has 3 more employees than our firm. They do over 3 times the sales we do. We could work round the clock and still couldn't approach the numbers they do. Anyone care to guess what they offer control wise?

You sound like me 3 years ago. Seriously, those were my exact words. Custom interfaces, the right product for the job, selling what's right for the client, etc etc etc. But there comes a point where you are limiting your clients because you want a custom interface that honestly your customers could care less about. I have been not saying this publicly here because RTI was good to me for a long time and I will still use them for commercial work but it's literally been 5 years of waiting for them to catch up. To allow me to sell my clients more stuff. The online training for launch of Apex was it for me. Way too little way too late.

I know they are trying to retain what made them great, custom interfaces and sexy remotes, but that's just not the industry right now.

Not to mention drastically increased product failures. Daily XP reboots to restart drivers, t2c remotes taking 15 second to connect to WiFi every time the client picks it up. 30 day process for repairs. No advanced rma and WE pay shipping on DOA product back to manufacture?

So, you're half right....Control system is as good as the person programming it AND the company behind it.

I recommend you stick to your guns. Hang in with RTI. See what happens. They have smart people and a good looking product. Hopefully they fix their issues.

Lol...what?