We use RTI for 100% of our multi-zone type systems. If you're in the know about RTI, you know it takes forever to program. And while the drivers seem to be getting better and more numerous, just figuring things out and lining things up on the GUI's and then copying it across 15 pages can bleed the hours, er, dollars.

So, we started peeking into C4 and it looks like time + headaches would be reduced (as compared to RTI). A few questions for you C4'ers:

1) Standard time for a 6 video zone + 10 audio system?

2) The 260 remotes seem to use zigbee only. Range? reliability?

3) Is tech support competent and efficient?

4) Assuming up to par network on both sides, is offsite control/notification stable?

5) Are party zones made automatically?

6) With RTI, we have to manually build for different platforms -- ios, android, fire tab, etc. Doesn't C4 just add the system build to any device? and without buying licenses?

7) Is Alexa control baked enough to deploy in clients' homes?

8) Is anyone here versed in both RTI and C4 that could provide insight?

9) Tell me something you don't like about C4; gotcha moments.

1. Nothing is ever standard lol. If it were just AV, I could probably get the basic configuration for a 6-video zone & 10-audio zone system programmed in 4 hours. This is assuming shared sources for all zones. I will say that we almost never do AV only in a system of that size.

2. SR-260 is Zigbee only; range depends on the environment. 40 feet is usually good; sometimes 60 is good.

3. Every once in a while I know more than the tech support person, but usually they’re pretty good. Wait times are usually reasonable.

4. I’d say so. As you alluded to, a solid network is essential.

5. No. You have to do that in programming, with media scenes, or custom buttons. It’s pretty easy. The user can select a source in one zone and easily join other zones to play the same source though.

6. Yep. It wasn’t like that years ago but that’s the case now.

7. Depends on who you ask. I like Alexa for lighting scenes or to turn on a video zone & select cable or sat for example. Also wake up, goodnight, or goodbye scenes/macros.

8. Only C4 for me. I programmed one RTI system about 3 years ago & hated it. Been with C4 since ‘07 or ‘08.

9. The entry-level processor (EA-1) doesn’t have analog audio out (HDMI only). The mid-priced processor (EA-3) can be powered via POE, but the EA-1 which they would love for you to stick behind TVs cannot. C4 has recently been pushing their Pakedge network gear, and they are starting to be less tolerant of other brands. Not an issue yet; I just hope it doesn’t become one.

1) Certainly depends on what is being used. But programming wise, I'd say 4 hours +/- is on par.

2) I personally thought the SR250 was more reliable, there has been small issues with the firmware for 260's. They are extremely reliable when a. they are working properly and b. when there is a strong zigbee mesh. Lighting product certainly relieves a lot of pain to creating the mesh. Otherwise, controllers are required to be either a new mesh or zigbee access point for existing mesh. Very simple to set that up though.

3) Haven't had issues with tech support. Most are competent, with the few bad eggs here and there. I think I've only ever called tech support a handful of times since 06'.

4) network stability is key, using good networking product. I don't use Pakedge either.

5) not automatically, but easy to setup.

6) same interface everywhere. nothing needs to be ported.

7) same as cshepards answer. Good enough for the simple tasks, when Alexa wants to cooperate. I think thats more of an Amazon issue though. What can you expect for $50 devices.

8) I've used both systems. Far easier to build a full blown system with C4. But as you stated, if you need custom stuff/GUI, C4 can't do that. Canned package that works well for what its designed for.

9) My gripe is the whole dealer level thing. I'm mostly all commercial installs, so certainly don't do enough business with them as I'd like to. Working C4 into commercial boardrooms is a tough sell when they don't gear towards commercial products. Their dealer levels are all sales based and not knowledge based. I don't just push boxes, I install solutions.

Years ago I comitted to using Elan on 100% of my installs. I have no regret whatsoever on a technical level, but one thing I never considered and I think you should work this into your equation:

Control 4 is the system that homeowners already have a chance of having brand recognition with. I'm constantly trying to educate homeowners that there are other options, which takes time and resources, whereas if I had just chosen Control 4 I'd be ahead of the game.

Just saying, consider brand recognition into the equation. If that's not important to you, then you should consider Elan as well because it's really solid.

We were in the same boat. We did RTI for years and it ate our programmers time.

We switched to Clare Controls and are really happy. We had them do a RTI driver so we can use the remotes, but the programming is done by Clare. We have just over 100 sites right now and they are pretty solid, cloud programming, native zwave, etc.

I can get a new, 8x8 video, 8+ audio zone system, security, surveillance and remotes programmed in a few hours.

I've talked to C4 several times and it always seemed like a risky bet for someone my size. There is an uncomfortably large initial order and annual requirements and they always made a point to attempt to impress me how large and aggressive they are and will become. My read is they would have no hesitation to trample me if their Big Picture suggested that this was to their advantage. The Extra Vegetables debacle tended to confirm my suspicions.

Based on the feedback that I've seen here, assuming you are the size company that they want, C4 is worth a look.

RTI Apex shows promise, but I wish that it was farther along. Now, it is possible to have one central cable page that all of the rooms use. This is a huge improvement.

I've been on a C4 run for 3-4 years now. Programmed my last RTI system on my way to C4 training.

Long story short, don't miss RTI.

Still has its place, would consider for commercial applications still. But honestly, once installed, no real C4 centric service calls.

RTI is solid, but as you said, going over pages of interface to make sure IT assigments get old, and system macros are a tough habit to learn.

C4 builds those macros for you. I tried Crestron, way too much for me to take on, System builder didn't make me happy, simply was too much too learn at the time.

C4 has made me happy.

We do both. Control4 for all residential and RTI for 90% of our commercial jobs. You will not regret going with Control4,. but know there are some limitations if you've been used to the RTI open GUI.

I can’t speak for C4, personally I’d recommend Elan. But pretty much anything is an improvement over programming RTI.

As for Alexa, the answer is no. Nothing to do with any control system you want to connect it to, just Alexa itself is still too flaky.

Love this. I might have to work that into our marketing.

Alexa works fine, you just need to remember the commands verbatim.

It actually works better then most of the basic solutions that should work in our industry. Out of the 100s of commands we’ve made for control she’s only missed 2-3.

The only problem with C4 integration is it isn’t natural. You have to say “turn on ambiance scene”

That’s what I mean though. You have to have the exact commands and for more than lights and stats have to create commands and macros. The other problem I’ve encountered is if you use an Alexa compatible device (like Caseta lighting) then have Alexa do an auto discover, Alexa will find them twice, which causes some issues.

If our manufacturers want voice control, they need to go straight to google or straight to amazon and work out getting a version that will live natively on our controllers and not just wrap up a bunch of DIY products

I integrated Alexa voice control with Crestron and created "routines" in the Alexa app in order to eliminate the dreaded "turn on" preface making voice control much easier. A routine is an Alexa command macro you can build in the Alexa App. You can build a routine with single command and a unique voice trigger to eliminate the "turn on" preface.

Yup C4 can use this too!