Had a client call asking if I could come and look at their "Lutron" system. It isn't working very well and they would like it fixed up.

Bought a spec home a few years ago, and in the builders documents they were told that is what they had.

I go by and have a look, and find no Lutron anywhere. But they do have HAI UPB 8 button and 5(?) button keypads all over the place and switches or dimmers around the house with some groups hidden in closets.

The system works, just not well from every keypad. The 8 button KP at the front door for example has 6 buttons with labels for specific lights (outdoor, foyer etc) and the last 2 buttons are an all on and all off.
Only the all on / off buttons seem to work well, the others you may have to press a few times before you get any sort of result. (bad keypad?)
They also have a few switches or dimmers that do not work anymore. They claim to have changed light bulbs in the fixtures, but still no function directly from the dimmers. (like Lutron, do they need to see a load, or does this sound more like failed dimmers?)

I believe there are a few people here that have some HAI lighting experience, any thoughts on what I might be able to do to help these people out?

Changing the system to Lutron is not going to happen (too expensive, I already suggested it and gave a quick budget)

I have read some things about the HAI UPB and it doesn't look complicated, is the software easy to find? Can you extract from the system so I have something to work with?
Does it sound like all that may be needed are a few new keypads and dimmers?
Any help would be great.

Pat

They're going to probably pay for a Lutron system by the time you get this back up to snuff and working over a few years, if that even happens.

Either tell them good luck on finding an HAI UPB specialist, or they have to pay for you to go Hero Mode. Which might cost as much as a brand new Ra2 system.

I'm taking care of a few of these systems now.

Tech support is some guy on the east coast (NC or TN maybe?). I cannot recall his number, you have to call Leviton (HAI) to get it.

Good luck.
 

I think HAI uses Simply Automated UPB gear, but I don't personally have a lot of knowledge about that:

http://simply-automated.com/

Web Mountain also sells UPB lighting. I know these guys personally and they really know their stuff. You'd probably serve yourself well just giving them a call. If they can't help you, the worst-case scenario is they point you in the right direction..

http://www.webmtn.com/

Its very possible to get this up and running correctly. BP is correct, it will take YOUR time which is money.

I don't think Simply automated OEM's to HAI. Simply Automated manufacturers UPB lighting but so do others like PowerWorx. Call Web Mountain , they are WELL versed and probably the best. They can lead you in the right direction. Simply AUtomated is Gen 1, others can be gen2. I have not needed gen 2 as we have been fortunate in properties without "dirty" electricity.

Pull a switch out and figure out exactly what units are being used. Maybe they are HAI HLC units.

We use ALOT of simply automated and freaking LOVE upb. Rarely ever a problem. Rock solid and a SUPER system.

Does customer have an HAI system? An Omni pro ii? What board?

You can down load UPB Upstart software free from many places. Best to use the software of the manufacturer, ie, if they have PowerWorx UPB, then use their software, but they ALL work with each other. LOVE simply automated software, just use it. Here is a link:

[Link: simply-automated.com]

Then all your need is a CIM (computer interface). Likely just a USB type so you can use it from your laptop:

[Link: simply-automated.com]

if they already have HAI they likely already have a PIM (power injection module) that allows HAI to talk switches. HAI mobile app is SUPER fast and gives you FULL control of ALL upb switches in system. I would take this job in a heart beat. BUT, if you are not HAI proficient or UPB, you may want to decline.

Im telling though, if you get this done and done right and they only have "some" switches, its an opportunity to get LOTS more add ons as once people get a taste of automated lights, they want more. And UPB is so freaking stupid simple, you'll want to do only lighting .lol. And easy referral business because UPB can work SUPER well.

Seriously, if I could do nothing but UPB lighting, I would. Its fun, its easy and its profitable. And best of all it has nothing to do with HDMI!

Again, FIRST, find out EXACTLY what they have. Im not sure that's even clear yet. Big first step.

With the Upstart software, you can get all the info from the switches, every one of them and it will tell you EXACTLY how it was previously set up. And you can make ANY change you desire from there.

It really is SUPER simple once you get the hang of it.

Automated Outlet has great support for UPB as well. Simply Automated as well!

I've used hai upb and it is dependable and robust. The trick is doing it right so it works.

I can't say how good hai is now that they are part of leviton But the tech support was amazing

Thanks for the replies.
I did see some form of HAI panel in basement mech room and they do have HAI touch panels in a couple of locations, but they were blank (like no power?) and I do not think these people have ever used them.
My guess is when they bought this spec home, the builder sold it as having a "Lutron Lighting" system (saw paper work client had) and then probably expected client would want to get CI in to do some final programming and be upsold on more parts etc. There are many lights in the house that have just a regular decora switch and are not part of the lighting system.
Fairly big house, 8000 sqft range, and I bet there are many rooms wired for sound too.
Too bad they really don't want to spend any money, I could do some nice things here, even the TV's in the house have remotes that the Mrs. has given up on trying to use because they don't work right every time.
Sad.. people live with this stuff for so long and instead of paying a little more to get things done right they figure they have spent enough and the next time they just stay away from any "toys" in their home because in their experience they never work right.
I have at least prevented her from telling her friends that Lutron is no good, as she now knows she doesn't have one of those systems.

The first thing you need is UPStart running on your laptop with either a PIM (powerline interface module) of your own or a way to connect to the PIM that's being used by the HAI system.

HAI UPB is not different, hardware wise, from plain UPB - it's simply a structured method of assigning unit IDs and Links, grouping 8 devices into a "Room", etc.

But I digress...

Back to UPStart - with UPStart you can run PIM-to-device communications tests and device-to-device communication tests to determine signal strength and noise level.

When trying to control other devices from a keypad it's typical that communication will be great to some devices and not others. When the communication gets to weak things don't work.

And it can vary with what electrically powered devices are running at any given time.

There are also devices, like a UPS, that can degrade the UPB signal.


So first you use UPStart to determine the current state of affairs and then determine what remedies you need to apply.

I gotta chime in here too.

UPB is pretty damn good stuff as Ed and Ranger posted.

HA is not Simply Automated. It is either rebadged PulseWorx/PCS or their own, depending on the exact model of the switch in question.

Hopefully it is Gen 2 stuff. Ask the builder how old it is (how long ago the system was installed). That would give us an idea if it is Gen 2.

Finally, Call Terry at Web Mountain 303-627-1856 (tell him John Lee sent you). He is an excellent tech support help on all brands of UPB (HAI, Simply Automated, HAI). They are a disty for all the equipment too and they are competitive on their prices against anyone. They deserve the support, and you'll agree once you start asking for their help on tech questions.

The first thing you need to do is download and install the UpStart program. There is also a very large (and well scripted) PDF manual on how to use the software. Spend a couple hours skimming through the manual, once you've installed the software. Then you can call Terry with questions and he'll help you at whatever you need. He's forgotten more about UPB than I know and I know this stuff pretty well.

UpStart is a very powerful program and has quite a bit of diagnostics built into it. It's much better than that abortion of a program the Lutron created for Ra2.

This is an opportunity to free yourself from the shackles of Lutron. Embrace it.

Also, Pulseworx/PCS recently released a very nice decora keypad (finally). You may be able to replace those old KPs with these new ones.

Your issues with buttons only working if you push them a few times might be related to scene logic, scene scrolling or toggling, etc..that is programmed to the buttons. This is inherent in all/most lighting control systems.

I had good experiences with PulseWorx product when designed properly (bridges, repeaters, etc).

Its a great system for the money, I have several systems with over 250 loads. If I can help you just let me know. Where are you located?

I will ask you not to use or make changes in UpStart; not until you have to.

HLC which is HAI's version of UPB is configured for simpler deployment and configuration.

As long as you stick to the on the 8's programming, it's very easy to configure and change.

I've deployed a bunch of systems and have an extensive system in my own house.

Call me (505)321-2241 and I'll give you some pointers of what to look for.

After you understand what to look for, it will be a good idea to get UpStart and read the network configuration with verification of all the devices AND saving that before any changes are done so you have a reference point.

BTW, once deployed UPB can operate without the panel, but you'll loose things like event bases triggers, timers, etc.

There are SOME timer functions built into UPB that will work without an HAI panel. But UPB coupled with HAI can be VERY powerful.

I'd love this job.

Thanks again for all the potential help and suggestions.

I found some doc's about using the program, now just have to get the software.

I have been doing Lutron lighting since around 1996 so I have to imagine I will be able to handle this once I get a closer look at what was done.

Interesting to see how many people have or are using this. I guess we have been lucky to have clients that when presented with Lutron have not asked for any alternative lighting solutions. In some ways maybe unlucky as I haven't been exposed to systems like this either.

One thing to know about UPStart.

To the best of my knowledge every manufacture of UPB devices that have their own PIM (sometimes called CIM) have their own version of UPStart which can be slightly different and prevent it (UPStart) from working with another brand of PIM.

So whatever PIM you end up buying/using use the version of UPStart from that manufacture to minimize problems you may encounter.