I would like all the feedback I can get regarding what you all don't like about programming, functionality etc. regarding pronto's.

This message was edited by JBJ SYSTEMS on 02/22/04 22:18.

First thing I would ask for is a remote that actually works. Second, make it work like the last generation of Pronto's(TSU-1000/2000/6000) and be as reliable and flexible but with the ability to display nice grahics. Third, DO NOT alpha/beta test the new remote on the general public. Fourth, give it RF capabilities that equal Crestron/AMX.

Just my $.02

Thank you avgenius1. Tell me how do you really feel! :)

The graphic problem, I think, is due to the higher resolution of the new screens...on our latest install we re-created the icons and logos so they would look better.

What about the new pronto's do you think is a beta test?

bigger screen, in colour. buttons that feel like the old prontos. cursor hard buttons with intuitive icons.

well, you can have a bigger screen with the iPronto

what is wrong with the feel of the buttons on the new Pronto's?

Have you seen the ProntoNG?

JBJ,

As far as the graphics of the old Pronto's vs. the new Pronto's, I understand that there is a screen resolution difference. As far as me telling you how I really feel......you asked for feedback.
I feel that Philips had a great thing going with the TSU 1000/2000/6000. This(and all of its off-shoots, ie Marantz, Integra, etc.) was probably the best universal remote of all time, heck just look at all of the files available for this remote versus all of the other remotes on this site alone. The .ccf file format has been adopted by numerous companies as an importable file for use in thier programs, as a way of making systems, of varying size, complexity and price, work better for the end user. I personally think that the NG series is the downfall of Philips.
I just dont understand why there was a reason to change the old Prontos, the processor in these units wasnt maxed out, sure, the screen resolution could have been improved but I believe the operating system would have supported that. At CEDIA this past year, I got an admission from a Philips employee that the NG series had not gone through enough BETA before being released. Seems that marketing wanted to get the new units out ASAP but engineering hadn't worked out all the bugs. They stopped production of the old style units before the new units were ready to ship. Once released, the amount of bugs made it very diffiult to insure that you could A) actually get the damn thing programmed and B) you could trust that the unit would actually work. Since our customers trust that we are pro's at this stuff, I didn't enjoy having to tell my customers that the remote wouldn't work as anticipated. I have yet to run across a customer who gets upset about there system not working AND wishes to take it up with the manufacturer. They may be understanding about the situation but the look in thier eyes is disappointment, and 'we' as the system integrator are the ones that reap the ill effects of this. Do you honestly believe that your customers dont, on some level, hold you responsible for equipment failures? I also find the IR range of the NG series to be less broad than the old style remotes.
The build quality of the NG's is not even in the same ballpark as the old style. I could continue but I think you get the picture.



This message was edited by avgenius1 on 02/23/04 09:30.

I believe it 100% They rely on us to make those important decisions that they hired us for in the first place...that's why I like to use proved equipment.
If choosen properly and installed correctly one shouldn't get "call backs" to fix problems or replace gear.


I would appreciate some technical specs in regard to what you all would like to see.



This message was edited by JBJ SYSTEMS on 02/22/04 22:20.

Well the NG is a better looking remote and the extra buttons are nice to us mainly because we know they are to be used. The customers have trouble understanding the concept and the 4 buttons directly under the screen are tough for them to grasp either. I would say make whatever hard buttons are available larger like the old ones so they look like buttons. Maybe have a cap thet you could remove and place a supplied label under and then replace the cap. I gotta say I definately like the older PE better than new software. Well ok easier, plus the upload/download from the unit is not as reliable. If they could incorporate an editing software that is 100% compatible with PE so we could use all the existing resources that would be great too! Just throwing it out there!

Oh yeah...that's what I want...keep it coming!!

I would like to see, at the very least, the ability to use .jpeg as well as .bmp files. Ultra hi-res screen would be nice as well. How about the ability to give a customer a 'end-user' software that would allow them to change some basic stuff, like backgrounds and/or add images to specified areas of the remote(think picture gallery). How about the ability to have the remote go into a sleep mode and default to a specific screen on awakening via a touch to the screen or buttons.

JBJ- smaller and cheaper are great but the build quality has to be there. Also, how about 8 total IR emitters on the unit, facing various forward directions so that when the end user points the remote at the ceiling to see which button they are pressing the commands actually get 'sent' to the equipment. Ergonomics need to feel like a 'remote control', a lot of people don't like touchscreens because of the feel. Whatever hard buttons are on this unit need to have slight differences in angle or size or shape, something to differentiate-by feel- which button your finger is on, without looking at it.
Make certain that its software will accept importing .ccf files. The RF needs to be either 418Mhz or 434 Mhz, some of you can figure out why this would be a good thing. Honestly though, I have lost all hope for the universal remote segment of the A/V industry. If the system doesnt include a control system(I prefer Crestron) then it will never be 100% reliable for the end user. The look on a customers face when they drop a DVD into the player and the whole system fires up and dims the lights or they drop a CD into the same player and the projector powers off and the lights go to a level optimized for music listening, that level of control will never be reached with a plain, old universal remote.

True that, true that!! I need an everyday solution for customers that are under the crestron budget though.

I think the new NG's are great and the software is easy to use, but whats up with the iPronto?!!

When I first saw this thing, it looked fantastic, I'm a whole home integrator, so a remote that you can incorporate into a 802.11 system is perfect.

However, this remote has been nothing but problems. Since Philips decided to use its own browser, we're always having problems. Most customers can't check email, or go on other websites. Furthermore, the break down constantly. Don't have much time to elaborate, but that thing stinks.

JBJ, if your looking for a reason to switch them, its RS232. More and more devices are being controlled with serial, and IR or even worse X10 is going the way of the dinosaur (In home automation, IR will never die). Xantechs IR to RS232 converter is time-consuming and expensive (it is a great piece though). Moreover, a good pitch I use is that Elan, AMX, Crestron, etc is more future proof, which is true, and what customers like.

This is what you were asking for right, reasons for your customer to switch, or have a misunderstood?

What I really want is an alternative to super pricy proprietary automation systems.

The price of the iPronto vs. for example the Modero touchpanel...forget about it. Can't we figure out a way to make everything work without comitting to ultra expensive AMX or Crestron?

BTW...Why is everybody comparing Elan with ANX and Crestron...Since when did Elan become on par with them?!

Thanks

Getting back to the remote rather than control system avgenius1 had some very valid points. I am echoing what many have said but here is my list
1. Build Quality. It has to be built well it has to be strong enough to last a few knocks. The battery cover should fit properly and not squeak when you pick it up like some Marantz models.
2. I.R power has to be really powerful and of wide frequency range (B&O etc), the multiple emitters are a great idea and of real world benefit.
3. Battery life even though it should be rechargeable should be a very long time.
4. The labeling of buttons is also something that should be addressed not just some weird symbols
5. The remote should be able to accept multiple file formats CCF, PCF etc it should accept Gifs bmp and jpegs and as many picture formats as it can.
6. It would be nice if it recognized one for all codes too (this would mean a massive built in data base of codes)
7. It would be nice if the software had multiple fonts and font sizes as standard
8. It would be nice if it had a RF to a IR distribution device with addressable emitters
9. Built in X10/and other RF interfaces would be nice
10. A memory card expansion slot might be a good idea to download existing configurations on to or to upload on to the remote or just so you can have massive configuration.
11. Make sure it’s properly tested before it hits the market.
12. Make the software has a familiar look.
13. Make sure download times are quick easy and bug free
14. allow someone from the company who makes it and knows what they are talking about to openly give advice and information and support on a remote control site
15. Have an on going training programme for custom installers.
16. I would want two versions a B&W and Color model both with quality screens but apart from that identical
17. I would like it to remember what it last sent out like apparently the new MX3000 will do so even if it is a toad device you can get good functionality
18. It should be able to learn difficult codes easily maybe have two learning modes long press learn for volume etc and short press learn for numbers keys etc
19. Make it work IrDa cable boxes.


I have just reviewed my wish list I don’t want much do I?
I am more likely to get the moon on a stick!!




This message was edited by wolf359 on 02/25/04 11:12.

JBJ,

I think you answered your own question! Elan is an inexpensive solution between Pronto and Amx/Crestron, isn't it? What don't you like about Elan?

-Tim