It bothers me to see CEDIA members bash people before they know the facts. Doesn't CEDIA have a code of ethics??
I find it very interesting that you people are threatened by this move from AVAD. I sat through the D2B story and it makes sense!!!
1.9 MILLION new homes and only 10% will get technology put into them!! I would now like to say that none of us (dealers-installers) have done a good job of promoting what we do and who we are.....shame on us!!

The market is changing!
What did the Leatherman who specialized in saddles and whips do when he saw the first automobile??? Did he deny people would stop riding horses?? People still ride horses today!! Did he start to make leather seatcovers or does he just make 5 ( instead of 300) saddles a year since he didn't want to change with the market?

This is how I see this program

#1 I get out of bed everyday to make money!
#2 I like what I do and I like gear
#3 I would like to make MORE MONEY
#4 Until you loose a BUILDER to Compusa or Best Buy you won't understand.( Compusa stole one of mine)
#5 Half the guys in our Biz don't know what they are doing and give me a bad name.( how many of your competitors jobs have you fixed over the years?)
#6 I would like to make MORE MONEY
#7 I have worked for myself for years and I will work my fingers to the BONE before I Wear a RED COMPUSA OR BLUE BEST BUY SHIRT!!
#8 If AVAD wants to put together a National program to combat Best Buy and Compusa, Than I give them a STANDING OVATION!!!!
#9 Who else is willing to spend MONEY and design a program to COMBAT BEST BUY AND COMP
#10 If you think your BUILDERS won't take free gear from BB & CUSA and sign a contract with them you are all NUTS!!!
#11 Do you know the Best Buy program will be THEY SELL TO THE BUILDER AND YOU GET PAID TO DO THE INSTALL. THIS SOUNDS LIKE A WINNER TO ME!!!!!! I wanna make money one Gear not labor
#12 The AVAD program is promoting our biz to builders
It allows us to sell the gear and make the money
The systems will be COOKIE CUTTER so your installers become more efficent an you MAKE MORE MONEY!!!
So if AVAD is going to spend money on this and help grow your business they SHOULD GET TO SELL YOU THE GEAR!
#13 MAYBE YOU SHOULD ASK YOU OTHER DISTRIBUTORS WHAT THEY ARE DOING FOR YOUR BUSINESS!!!!!
ANSWER.....NOTHING!!
I DID LOOSE A JOB LAST MONTH AFTER MY CLIENT WALKED INTO A?I AND BOUGHT A RUSSOUND SYSTEM ON HIS CREDIT CARD AT DEALER COST AND ASKED ME TO INSTALL IT!!!
I TOLD HIM NO!! SO A?I FOUND A ALARM GUY WHO DID IT FOR HIM FOR A COUPLE HUNDRED BUCKS!!!
THATS THE THANKS I GET FROM THAT DISTRIBUTOR
#14 Before I go to CEDIA next year I plan on stopping at BEST BUY to by a movie to watch on the plane....I'll wave to you guys when I'm there...OH I won't rip on your Blue Shirt.

Before you CRY WOLF you may want to open the gate and walk into the pasture and stand on the grass you are calling BROWN. It feels good on my feet!

P.S. I DO NOT WORK FOR AVAD!!!
I AM A BUSINESSMAN WHO HAPPENS TO BE IN THE AUDIO/VIDEO BIZ! ( NOT THE NORM IN THESE PARTS)

We should be expecting a post from the person at AVAD who designed this program spelling out all of the details... that way we get both sides. I had a good meeting with my AVAD rep. Even though we disagree on this one we are still friends, which is ultimately the most important thing to me.

CARL... DON"T YOU KNOW THAT TYPING IN CAPS IS LIKE SHOUTING??????

We will read your post and take your ideas into account without SHOUTING at us.

By the way, I met a few of these guys at CEDIA and they, like me are businessmen in the AV business... silly assumption you just made. This forum is here so we can discuss our business and the industry in general.

By all means, sign up, you're the kind of guy they are looking for. If it grows your biz then great... knock em dead!

I talked to my Avid rep today and he assured me that the whole program was designed to save us from the whole conglomerate plague that is approaching. This is all fine and well, on the surface I can even see paying dues to cover the cost of this program as justifiable. What sets wrong with this, in my opinion, is the “Avid needs to train us” part of this story before we can belong to their builder club. If you are like me, you probably know more about how to install most of these products than the rep does. Should not the prerequisite be to take an admission exam, if you pass, go about your business kind of thing? Now you might ask why should we have to take a test? Because there are a lot of wanabees out there giving our business a bad name, so if these folks fail the test, off to school they go. Further I feel that $2500.00 is a pretty steep buy in, $250.00 a year dues would be a more sensible approach, for what they have to offer. In all honestly, all of this makes me real nervous, like in Absolute power corrupting, and beware of Greeks bearing gifts and what was that other one, oh, the story of the Judas goat.

I think there has to be another way, a way where we are in control of this ship?

to further RTI's point, and correct one thing...

$2500.00 is the INITIAL buy in, and is good for three people in the company. After those three (and according to what I was told by MY AVAD rep, EVERYONE in a member company must be AVAD Certified) the price is $1000.00/installer, designer, etc...

So, if you have 9 guys, you're buy in would actually be $8500.00.

Then lets not forget that you DO need to pay a recurring fee the next year, and I believe it was 1K per employee as well....

So if I'm remembering this entire converstaion with AVAD exactly correctly, then I pay 8500 the first year, and 9k every following year...

I may be slightly wrong here though, as I kinda zoned out and started thingking about Tulips, Poppies and my little dog Toto about 2 minutes in....

avdude

If I am not mistaken the people doing the D2B training are the top trainers in our industry. I don't believe AVAD would put together a program of this size and have your rep teach the class. With 10 years in this Industry I know tons...."But I can always learn more"

Again I ask what are your other Distributors and Reps doing to combat the Big Box Boys??????

While other Distributors are looking for ways to broker Plasma deals with Costco and Traditional Reps pray to the Good Guys and Tweeter Gods for 10 more stores to open, AVAD is looking for a way to build this network of Great Dealers to make the Big Box Boys unable to play in our backyard.

CarlW,

"Again I ask what are your other Distributors and Reps doin to combat the Big Box Boys?????"

Don't see where I or most custom installation companies are competing with any big box stores, so that's pretty much irrelevant. And really, if a custom installation company is competing with BB, CC or such, then they may need to re-visit their own business model.

Basically, my customer base isn't interested in a BB buying experience.

Trunk Slammer,
I don't know where you are based but I have lost biz to Compusa....A big builder!
All Comp did was give him stuff to get in the door.
Will he be back??
I bet he will
But he may also decide that A/V is a pain and his clients don't need it.

Every business model starts small than it become big box.

Where did all the Mom & Pop Funiture stores, Pharmacys,Gas Stations,Clothing Store, and Resturants go????
Until you have been hit in the pocket you won't understand.

Caps can also be used to emphasize a point which the post writer feels is especially important, WHICH IS DIFFERENT THAN SHOUTING and clearly what Carl was was doing since the vast majority of his post was not in caps!

:-)

p.s. I learned the difference by referring to the book The Message Board Posters Guide to Etiquette, by Ben Dover.

This message was edited by QQQ on 11/15/03 12:40.

Ben Dover. Ah I got his lesson from the last customer who screwed my for $$$$$$$$ A great lesson. My a** still hurts. Next.

Hey don't gripe.... Send your comments directly to the source. Maybee 5000 emails from installers will shake the foundation.

Administration - [email protected]
Managing Director - [email protected]
Sales - [email protected]
Headquarters - [email protected]
Executive Committee - [email protected]

Or just write the old fashioned way!!!
Corporate Offices :

AVAD,LLC
PMB 289
6278 North Federal Highway
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33308

I love the way we support them, build their business's, and then give them the financial strength to put us all under. Who needs them??

Richard

They are still around because there is always a market for good, personal service. I don't think we should be blaming anybody but ourselves if we don't have the business we desire. As for AVAD, I used to work for an electronics distributor and it is a very cut throat, dog eat dog business. I don't blame AVAD a bit for trying to leverage their position to increase sales, that's what businesses do. Personally, however, I don't think I will participate in it. I am perfectly capable of marketing my own business. I see AVAD's plan attracting builders that I wouldn't want to work with anyway, and I don't like being restricted to AVAD product. Instead I will be seeking out lines and avenues to differentiate myself from AVAD and other big retailers. Hopefully you truly custom installers out there will do the same. Vote with your $$, you do have a choice.

I don't see the AVAD program taking over the $30k theater jobs and up.
Those are truly custom and my favorite things to do
This program is for production builders who are in the Crosshairs of BB & Compusa. The sub $12k jobs ( just my guess)

6-23-03 TWICE magazine has a full article about best buy and compusa and how they only see growth in the CEDIA market and how much business they have taken already.

Again I ask what are your other Distributors doing??
Is the AVAD program perfect??
I don't know, but I will when it launches in April 2004

As for AVAD making money??

DO YOU MEET WITH A CLIENT TO ENHANCE THERE LIFSTYLE OR TO SELL THEM GREAT STUFF THAT THEY WILL LOVE AND YOU MAKE MONEY ON.
IS IT A CRIME TO MAKE MONEY??
IF THEY BUILD A PROGRAM AND SPEND MONEY WHY SHOULDN'T THEY GET A RETURN ON THERE INVESTMENT???
IF I SPEND MY CASH I WANT SOMETHING FOR IT!
I DON'T LIVE WITH MY PARENTS AND LIKE MAKING MONEY.
( not yelling just expressing myself..sorry)

Now I have a client who's wife runs a internet site and sells lcd tv's,boom boxes,plasmas,speakers, and lots of other things that DBL sell.

While AVAD wants to build a builders program.

DBL has a "Fullfillment" center program.
You sell it on your www.cheapcrap.com and they drop ship it for you.
If you only make 10% and all you do is get a check...Sounds like a good deal for the www.boys!!
DBL is the WAL-MART distributors.
WE SHOULD BOYCOTT DBL.
I won't buy from them...They don't know anything.
The girl I dealt with did sound like a cute,stupid High School cheerleader.


I will post my true opinon in April 2004!
Until then people will just guess and sling mud. Be careful it may end up on your face..

I am also very interested to see how the AVAD deal pans out. It has been my experience though, that mass marketing to builders is a sure way to drive your prices (and therefore margins) into the dirt. I'll wait and see.

TG... still awaiting Kim's post on this program. Now that so many people are viewing this thread lets get the full info here!

By the way, I want to thank my local AVAD for lending me, free of charge, a Fujitsi Plasma Tabletop mount for my company's show this weekend... obviously no hard feelings over my posts displaying my opinions here. The program makes no sense for my business model as BB, CC, COMPUSA are in it and won't go away. CUSA even hired a former guy who went out of the custom install biz a few years ago to run their department. Having tried to move to a big corporation and teach custom install to them... I can tell you this... Custom to these guys is a hidden Bose system and a bunch of free satellite installs... certainly not building a $250,000 home theater or even a good sounding multi-room system. COMP-USA will stay up on home automation systems as they become TCP/IP and more plug and play but their average employee will not have our integration experience levels and there will always be customers for us. The client that is presently supporting them will continue to do so and is in a different world. The jist of my posts was only to raise awareness... letting the builder you have a relationship with that he/she will be receiving a solicitation from a distributor that will ask for his/her business. If this solicitation sways a builder from a sparky or a big box store and sends them to one of us then cool... if it takes away from me and gives it to my competition and it comes from someone I buy from then I'd be a little pissed off. I have headed off my builders... you should do the same both in regard to AVAD and the big boxers. The program will definitely be going forward... we just need all the info.

RTI Installer... fellow local... drop me a mail... sounds like we can commiserate.

I have a question for you guys. Maybe I missed it somewhere in another discussion but why does AVAD think they can do a better job marketing to the builders than we can. I realize they'll have a lot to contribute to marketing and advertising (especially after they get all those buy in fees) but I don't see how they can possibly do much better in closing deals than we can. Personally our company does many of the "Premier Builders" homes in our area. I've had the builders say and I quote " This structured wiring is something we should do for our customers but we aren't going to pay for it." We've done everything imaginable to get the builders in our area to bite on technology but they simply refuse to. So we go around them and directly to their clients.

The funny thing about that is we have even offered them incentives and they turn us down. Of course they always want to know where their incentives are when they see us working in their homes anyways. Too Bad.

Then there are the production home builders. These guys call us at least twice a year. We go in with our manufacturers reps and in some instances even bring in the trainers. After it's all said and done they say no it's still to expensive and our customers would never pay for that. But never fear in 6 months we'll go through the same thing again.

Well that's my gripe with the D2B program. At least for our area. If I can't or even my competitor can't (and I know they try) to sell the builders on technology what could AVAD possibly have up their sleeve to get the job done?