Whatever makes you think we do?
I guess a bunch of our employess probably use car audio amps, I personally have three, but we don't sell any.

The MU290 looks more like a regular amp...although...again...like all your products that are supposed to be made for the custom installation industry...they are NOT rack friendly. There might be some half assed way to make it rack mountable but I'm sure it takes up more real estate than necessary.

This page on your site isn't working properly...the "larger" images don't pop up.

[Link: netstreams.com]

Anyways...the older model amp you used to use was a straight up car audio amp with some modification. I can't recall the model number nor can I find a picture. When did you guys stop using that car audio amp?

Even IF they were using a "car audio" amp, who cares, as long as it works properly? If you don't think it does, than that should be your complaint. BTW, Bryston and others have for years offered "amp packs", which look like car amps.

[Link: bryston.ca]

Since NetStreams designs their amps to be hidden in the ceiling or room, I would not expect them to look like a regular amp. Crestron's room controllers look quite similar, don't they? I wouldn't call them a car controller.

That thing is way cool Q. I wonder what it costs?

Not a Bryston dealer, but I think somewhere just above $1000. You're a Crestron dealer, don't forget their similar option, though it does have a more conventional form factor.

[Link: crestron.com]

Well...I care. I don't want some cheezey POS in my rack. Anyways...the thing was overpriced so we went with a Z series Elan (1U) 6ch. amp for the same price. It BLEW away the SpeakerLinx...it was a joke.

Thanks for the heads up on the web site problem.

The MU290 is the only amp of its type we have ever offered. So I am still not clear on what you refer to. Maybe you are thinking of the 290, it does sorta look like some car amps, mostly because it is all heatsink. We prefer not to have fans it at all possible. There is no fan on the MU290.

As QQQ pointed out, the amp is not designed for rack mounting. It is designed to be mounted closer to the speaker. There are plenty of rack mount amplifier available. We wanted something easily mounted closer to the load it will drive, and something that can be easily daisy-chained. The MU290 has RJ45 inputs and outputs, and can be easily daisy chained together so you can have one zone with lots of different amp running it. And the amps can be located close to the load they are driving. That's better in terms of sonics and efficiency. Of course if you don't like that (or you're into wire) you can rack mount your amps and pull long runs of speaker wire.
It's nice to have alternatives.
It is similar in concept to the Bryston mentioned. As I recall that was an outgrowth of their bi and tri-amping work with PMC. They wanted to get the amp close to the speaker. I'm a big Bryston fan. I chose them as our OEM partner when I was at Lexicon. Well built, sounds great, and backed by a good company.

Edit: I was typing a post as I was doing something else and Buzz answered in the mean time.

Well again JBJ, it's NOT meant to go in a rack. Look, if you don't like the product, fine. But if you are going to crap on it every time there is a mention of it just for the sake of crapping on it, it gets tiring. First you said it was a car amp. Now you say you didn't use it but used something else you could put in a rack. So what the hell is the problem then, you were able to easily overcome what you didn't like about the product, right?

They now offer 3 amps, the 20 watt x 2 version, a 50 watt x 2 version and a 100 watt x 2 version. All are designed to be located in the room and have Ethernet connections. If someone wants to locate them centrally they could all be mounted on a wall. Polk also offers IP speakers. If that doesn't meet someones needs, and I happen to be a "rack guy" too, then you can evidently use a rack mount product, since that's what you did. Some type of Ethernet to legacy conversion would be required.

And BTW, even though I'm a rack guy their strategy of offering room amplifiers does make sense because it ties into their strategy of offering a system that enables very long runs along with almost infinite expandability/modularity. As an example, if someone wants to add a room no extra rack space is required. And if someone wants to add 3 rooms you add 3 and don't have to add an extra 12 channel amp because you are out of channels. Just run a Cat 5 to the room and you are set. Their strategy is not without merit.

If one was to use their reccomended wiring topology you would be removing keypads and speakers over and over again. It's a good concept but not realistic in the real world. I'd really like to hear from some of the dealers who have had sucess with this product using the netstreams wiring concept.

As far as the amp goes...my point is this system is supposed to be made for "us"...or at least that's the way they sold it to us...so if that's the case...why use a completely non-standard topology...and why have a bunch of product that was never meant to be rack mounted (but may be with various kits etc.) Their amps DO NOT sound good. Straight up. Sorry. That being said...this whole concept of "it will sound better if there is less wire and the amp is closer to the speaker" is BS! Don't drink the Kool Aid.

I'm not crapping on it just to crap on it. I'm meerely sharing my experiences and opinions with you all in the hope that you will not make the same mistake I did. I'm not just going to sit here idle while people are spoon fed BS about a product that does not work as advertized...or at least it didn't when I first used it....when it first was released. And IMO...if it's released...it should work...first time. I'm not keen on being experimented on by companies who don't have their $hit together. But...in the end...I should have known better. Some things are too good to be true. I love the concept...if it were 1/2 the price, sounded good and everything worked right from the wizard...we'd have something.

The problem is that you always make statements and don't really back them up. What's *specifically* is unsound about their wiring topology and why would it cause one to remove keypads and speakers again and again?


Well since it's Ethernet based it's obviously going to have a slightly different wiring topology. But I'm not sure what so bad or unusual about it. About the only thing that's different is that they recommend running Cat 5 to speakers along with speaker cable and in their case use the speaker cable for power and the Cat 5 for signal. That scheme also works with every other system on the market so it's not that proprietary.


Looks to me like just about EVERY product in their lineup is made to be or can be rack mounted. Some of the components are quite small and it goes without saying that such components will need a rack mount kit. Again, this is the same as everyone else on the market including AMX and Crestron.

Fair enough, at least you're stating an actual issue there. But based on when you did the installation I suspect they only had their first low power amp out. So is it really fair to keep making that criticism when they now offer two other choices?

I pretty much agree with you on that one. The average length of a speaker wire run in a residence is insignificant in the total scheme of things and if one uses the proper gauge wire it is IMHO unlikely that there's going to be an iota of audible difference between having the amp in the room versus located centrally.


Hey, I honestly appreciate that. I know what it's like to get burned and to want to speak up and prevent others from being similarly burned. But I still don't think we have ever seen you actual spell out exactly what the issues were that you experienced. Isn't that what ignited such ire on Alan's part and caused him to question whether it wasn't the installation that may have been at fault?

I haven't used the system but these are my thoughts and seems to be that of some others;

- the architecture and scalability of the product is impressive - centralised or distributed, it's your choice
- their wiring topology is pretty much industry standard (Cat 5 with 16/4 from rack to speaker via keypad / controller)
- audio (and video) over IP is the future, maybe not just exclusively
- the product has a market right now, just requires a different way of selling it to what we have been use to
- it has limitations with regards to user interface design but will suit a large number of clients and is getting better over time
- I believe it allows you to package up systems and sell in volume more easily than traditional fully custom systems, so if you want to grow your business by selling loads more systems then you will need to move away from fully customised systems as the labour required to install and support makes it too challenging
- knowledge of networking is critical, as it is with a lot of products we are selling these days anyway
- it's not a Crestron or AMX killer but will nibble at some of their market
- the similar pricing to Crestron or AMX won't make it that appealing to dealers of these but may not matter to others
- I am not ready for the product as yet but am keeping a close eye on it
- not being a fully customisable product is a concern if and when your client comes back to you a year after installation and wants to integrate an unsupported product
- without stating the obvious, it needs to be rock solid for it to succeed
- it's not going to be a product for everyone, especially the close minded
- Buzz Goddard is a huge asset to the company and others should take note of how he represents the company and conducts himself on this and other public forums

Quiet an excellent summation I think :-).

Thanks Q

I just merged most of your DigiLinx posts into one ;-)

Some may recall my fairly recent post "is Netstreams ready for primetime?". The responses (good and bad) I got were very helpful and we decided to sign up as a dealer. I was planning to report back after two projects were complete, but that will be a few months. In the meantime, I set up our store demo system. I will say that I was impressed by several things so far.

- I was able to get the system up and running in few hours-including wiring, and
configuration.
- Kevin (the President) called me to see how things were going. In 17 years I can't recall a manufacturer president calling me to see how things are going.
- We've had the system up and running for about a month with few issues (TL380 screen locked up once).
- I've called Tech support nearly every day (with questions not problems)since we received our gear and everyone has been very helpful and never rude or short with me.
- My Rep answers my calls 75% of the time, and returns messages promptly when he does'nt.
-I asked my Office Manager and Receptionist to use the system often throughout the day and report any problems or operational confusion-None yet.
- We are controlling Lutron Homeworks, Aprillare, Ipod/Iport, Polk XM, Panasonic web cams, Escient Fireball, and soon GE Concord (Bad superbus interface module)
- I can't speak for Crestron, but what I set up in an afternoon would be days or weeks with AMX (which we love and still sell). Time is money!

Well I don't know what your using in Digilynx Buzz, but in the Musica product I have some issues. I installed the product and it sounded terrible...I thought I had a defective product, but replacement product sounded the same. I finally bench tested the "50W" keypads and they put out a very dirty 15 watts of power into an 8 ohm load before visable and audible distortion. Mike B...I expected better from you.