Barry,

I liked your idea of a paid license or subscription similar to Apple's developer license. For the $100/year subscription fee, Apple gives you access to their developer's API documentation and tools. I consider access to Philips Pronto developer documentation and tools a direct analogy.

I know a lot of people here will probably balk (some rather strongly I suspect) at having to pay for something that's been free up until now. But if the fee is reasonable (say $100/year or less), it seems perfectly fair.

Further, if Philips chooses to waive that fee for authorized dealers, that's their business :)

Jeff

I dont think that there ever will be a charge for using the software.

As Barry said: Hold your horses mates, dont let go of your hope.

I don´t think I would like to start paying for something that was promised for free when I bought the product. They would have to add something special for that.
Heard today that Philips are saying that the new site isn´t ready yet. Maybe a chance for them to try and save face.

I don't recall any promise in any document that was provided in the box when I bought any of my Prontos. I was given the software I needed. Nobody stated, let alone promised, that I would be entitled to updates in perpetuity at no cost to me. No body stated that I would be granted access to all sorts of documentation, working applications, sample code, etc.

A lot of those things came about, some of those things many of us (including myself) would like to assume and sort of do feel that we are entitled to, but in reality we are probably not. Please do not tell me what was implied as an implied agreement is only worth the paper it is written on.

Most manufacturers have a statement that they reserve the right to change the product with no obligation to provide that change to the customer. Do you expect a free new car every year that fixes defects and has feature upgrades (a bit far fetched, but related to a degree)? Do you get a service manual for your car for free when you buy the car? I do not recall if Philips had such a clause, but to be perfectly honest I am not overly concerned.

If I never use PEP 3 that will not end my Pronto explorations. If I never have access to another Philips produced or maintained item I will be all right and be able to keep do what I enjoy.

Microsoft has maintained backwards compatiblity to older applications that definately deserves praise if you have any idea what that entails.

I do believe there is some obligation on the manufacturers part (Philips) to fix things that are clearly incorrect, and I believe Philips intends to do that as it has in the past.

Having said all that I still believe that Philips will stand by all of us in a reasonable manner, so lets just give them some time.

Perfectly and well spoken (written).

Prontoteam, I am disappointed. I am disappointed about the decisions. But more so I am disappointed about the way you have executed them. This has generated the type of publicity the Pronto does not deserve.

Barry,

While I do agree that Philips is well within their rights to do anything they believe makes sense for the business (as long as it does not violate any explicit contractual obligations and the local consumer protection legislatures, of course), I personally don't feel comfortable being under suspicion to have committed a fraud to get unauthorized software and/or a ‘gray market’ Pronto unit.

Because that's exactly how I read here some of the interpretations of the recent events - they wanted to repel the ‘unethical’ middleman, but in order to do so they nuked the entire ecosystem including end users who now are also assumed to be ‘unethical’ yet they didn't do anything wrong. Otherwise why punish them as well?

If the registration process was not meant to provide the ‘Pro’ level access to end users and it was just a hole in the security procedures, then I don’t get it how it could have been going on for years without anyone at Philips having noticed and fixed it...


P.S. In the meantime, the idea to get a Marantz RC9001 does not look so insane to me now. It still can be had for ~$500, Wi-Fi/IR extender included, from a reputable online retailer. At least with the 3 year warranty and the software/firmware freely accessible directly from Marantz (no registration required), there will be some predictability for some time ahead. And as long as Philips doesn’t pull a plug on the file area on RC, it is even possible to use PEP2 to program it.

I would pay a fee to say that I am "licensed" if that would solve the problem.

Just spoke to the Australian Distributor there saying regardless that even if you buy the remote in Australia the registration code is for installers and sales.

As one of the prime whiners :) Let me be a bit clearer on what I:

Expect:
- Original SW that was supplied with the product should be available online.
- Upgraded version within the same release , i.e 1.x .
- Sw that have been made available on the web should not be revoked in a
foreseeable time.
- Developers guide should be available for all, or atleast a description of
the libraries and API's in Javascript.
- Updates to the IR codes database during a period of time
after the purchase.
- Access to support interfaces for bug reporting.
( I think of this as a way to help the vendor.)


Nice to have:
- Coding examples.
- Some prebuilt modules.
- Possibility to buy all prebuilt modules at a higher price for DIY'ers.
- Ongoing access to updates to the IR codes database after the purchase.
- Access to some support. A certain # of cases, not just support for 6 months,
In that way this forum can help beginners and we can direct more
qualified question to Philips when needed.
And I'm talking about less than 10 cases.
- Access to SW updates when versions are changed, i.e 1.x to 2.x.
( I think the discussions here give Philips a good insight in what is
wanted in a future release. So they benefit from having many
users at almost no cost for them)
-

Really not expecting:
- Free access to all prebuilt modules.
- Possibility to buy all prebuilt modules at a reduced price for installers.
- Developers support to a larger extent.
- Free unlimited access to support.
- Free unlimited SW upgrades of everything that was originally
delivered with the product.
- Eternal updates to the IR codes database.

I guess there are item that can be moved up and down here ,
but that is from the top of my head.

/eleson

I am saddened that some posters appear to pitch independent developers and enthusiast against the people who make a living (or at least some profit) off the Pronto. There is no objective basis for this. As an enthusiast, I certainly wouldn't pay e.g. >2'000$ for a professional installation at my home - and yet I would gladly engage an installer for refurbishing the lecture hall of my academic institute. Hence the professionals are in no way hurt by the enthusiast community - in fact I imagine that some professional may be quite happy to help themselves on RC's file area. So, is it too much to ask the professionals to display some solidarity with the enthusiasts?

Yesterday I reported that my distributor had generously given me a registration code which allowed me back to the professional area.

Today I attempted to login to the Pronto site and was refused access.

The registration code I was given has also been refused.

At the end of the day, I did as asked, contacted my distributor for the registration code.

Not to sure what to do now. Contacting my distributor again seems a bit pointless. Even if I was a re-gain granted access, would it last more than a day"

Hopefully Philips will come up with a solution soon.

Now it is 8 pm in Belgium Europe, and no information from Philips.

As I said, decisions do not come lightly in Philips.

Patience my friend, is a virtue. There is nothing new behind the curtains.
You havent missed anything.

What do you prefer, a fast and hastly cobbled together answer, or a well thought through reply?

Dont sit and count out time, go and use the wonderful music/movie system you have in your house, and take a sip of your favourite beverage. ;D

To clarify on my own position. I've only ever needed the software (Pronto Pro Editor) and firmware. I haven't done any exams. I've used the basic interface, and done a little bit with macros using the info on these forums, the prontoscript manual (this is the one thing i'd like access to on top of firmware and software - I don't expect support from Philips or anything) and some free javascript guides online. It's the same case now. I'm not expecting any other support from Philips.

Going slightly offtopic - along with the discussions on alternatives and supplementary products to pronto, I've often wanted to create a thread on the future of remotes and ideas and preferences from people, but can't decide the best forum to create in. If anyone has thoughts, please let me know. If you're worried about filling up this thread, pm me.