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Topic:
Low Frequency Soundproofing
This thread has 10 replies. Displaying all posts.
Post 1 made on April 30, 2010 at 09:30
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Ted White
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Since we're all involved with rooms generating a great deal of sound, I though some here might find this interesting. Generally the most difficult aspect of high level isolation is controlling the low frequencies (bass). Keep in mind that STC doesn't measure bass, as it does not consider frequencies below 125Hz, and we're obviously dealing with rooms that put out a great deal of sound below that. Generally construction efforts to reduce low frequencies will naturally take care of the lower energy high frequencies.

In short, every compressible cavity (such as air cavities in walls and ceilings) will define a specific resonance point (frequency) in a decoupled system. If we have a double stud wall, or ceiling with clips and channel, then we have a decoupled system. Think of this decoupled system as a spring that oscillates. This system will have a calculable low frequency resonance point, defined by the Mass-Air (spring)-Mass parameters. Let's say this resonance point is 70Hz.

At 70Hz, we don't stop a lot of sound, since resonance allows that frequency to pass fairly easily. At 100Hz, we're doing much better, but as we start looking at frequencies lower than 100Hz, Transmission Loss gets worse and worse until we hit 70Hz rock bottom. So at resonance (70Hz), and just above resonance (70-100Hz) things are not great for our sound isolation. Generally the math is from the resonance point up to around 1.5X the resonance point we don't do as well in sound isolation.

If we could move that resonance point from 70Hz. to 40Hz. we would be much better off:

Scenario #1 has 70Hz resonance point, and weakness from 70Hz through 105Hz. (70 x 1.5= 105).

Scenario #2 has a 40Hz. resonance point, and a weakness from 40Hz through 60Hz. (40 x 1.5= 60).

This is why we spend time looking to incorporate methods to lower that LF resonance point as much as possible. How do we accomplish this? Keeping in mind that a decoupled system is a spring system:

We can add absorption in the form of simple (standard thermal) insulation. This will lower the resonance point (frequency) of the system a bit.

We can add mass to the system. This essentially weighs down our spring system, slowing the oscillation = lowering the resonance. The added mass is more effective than the insulation.

We can add cavity depth to the system. For the same reason that insulation helps, so does more air in the cavity. This also isn't as effective as adding the mass.

So again, if we can progressively march that low frequency point down, we minimize the frequencies that will display weakness.

Hope this helps.

Post 2 made on May 1, 2010 at 21:54
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brucewayne
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I had a client that wanted her theater sound proof and in there wasn't enough room ceiling or walls to properly do it. I was taught that you need 4 inch of sound proofing to do freq's under 100hz . Everytime I spec the proper sound proofing people are shocked how much space it is going to take up.
brucewayne
OP | Post 3 made on May 2, 2010 at 08:31
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Ted White
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Soundproofing does take up space. Decoupling alone chews up a couple inches. Funny how people want huge performance but are looking for a paint.
Post 4 made on May 3, 2010 at 09:10
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cjoneill
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On May 1, 2010 at 22:54, brucewayne said...
I was taught that you need 4 inch of sound proofing to do freq's under 100hz .

Are you talking about soundproofing or helping the room to sound better? They are two different things. 4" is about the right thickness for absorption to help with bass reflections. 4" is fairly nebulous when you are talking about sound proofing- is that 4 inches of feathers or a 4" thick lead liner? :)

CJ

I'm not a pro
Post 5 made on May 4, 2010 at 09:57
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Neurorad
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Yeah, how much would 4" really help to contain low frequencies? Wouldn't mass help much more? Triple drywall (2.5") would go much further than a 4" air gap.

Thanks, Ted. Keep the educational threads coming. ;)

TB A+ Partner
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha
OP | Post 6 made on May 4, 2010 at 12:20
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Ted White
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On May 4, 2010 at 10:57, Neurorad said...
Yeah, how much would 4" really help to contain low frequencies? Wouldn't mass help much more? Triple drywall (2.5") would go much further than a 4" air gap.

Thanks, Ted. Keep the educational threads coming. ;)


You are exactly right. If the sytem was decoupled, the mass will have a greater impact than cavity depth. Just as you say.
Post 7 made on May 4, 2010 at 21:34
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brucewayne
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I mean 4 inches of sound proofing like fiberglass panels not air space. Triple drywall wouldn't do much . 3 sheets of 3/4 inch would only stop the same freqs . it resonates at same freq. the dry wall would need to be different thickness and that would not help much at all. unless you were doing thickness's of 3/4 , 1 and 1 1/2 and 1-1/2 would easily pass anything under 100hz.
brucewayne
OP | Post 8 made on May 5, 2010 at 08:17
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Ted White
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Bruce, you're saying you believe that 4" of insulation would stop more sound than three sheets of drywall? Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

There are 4 elements that come into play with sound isolation.

Decoupling
Absorption (insulation)
Mass
Damping

Out of those, insulation is the smallest contributor.

Post 9 made on May 5, 2010 at 20:42
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brucewayne
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once again i'm misunderstood . A 4'' thick sound proofing panel which I believe are made from fiberglass not house insulation .
brucewayne
Post 10 made on May 6, 2010 at 09:25
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cjoneill
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I really think you are talking about sound treatments rather than sound proofing.

CJ

I'm not a pro
OP | Post 11 made on May 6, 2010 at 09:34
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Ted White
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Yes. The acoustic panel would do a geat deal for in-room acoustics, but little for sound isolation.

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