Hello,

I've been trying to scour the internet for a product that may be able to convert IP/Wifi commands from an iOS app (any app, even URC CPP/Total) over to RF 418MHz. It has to be RF as IR is not possible on this custom built box from a few years back. This project is a top urgent one for me, any help or experience out there appreciated.

We have been successful in using URC MX-series remote to issue RF commands using our custom hex codes. Would like to use an IP-to-RF converter for sake of iOS device now.

Much appreciated gang,

Kyle

URC makes the RFTX-1 which is a 418MHz RF transmitter. It is the same as having a handheld emitting RF. It must be used in tandem with one of the network base stations such as the MRX-1, which will also allow iOS control.

I wonder if this is even possible as described, since IP is a series of packets and an IR command is a series of modulated pulses that can be described by several, sometimes many, hexadecimal words. It seems that you'd have to translate the information from one style to another....

Is your RF box designed to receive IP-type signals, or RF analogs of IR signals? If it's designed to receive IP signals, then might it work if you convert the box to receive RF at wi-fi frequencies? Of course, your wi-fi transmitter is looking for two-way communication, so again there's a translation difficulty.


Ah, yeah, you're basically asking for a translator. I've never heard of anything like this, I think because people who design a transmitter design a matching set, meaning also a receiver for the exact signal style sent by the transmitter.

Maybe you could give us more detail as to what you're doing. Is this box a one-off, or a modification of an existing product?

There is some information missing from your request...

But the issue is that even when you supply the missing information, I still can't point you to a solution, that is available in the market.

Any IP protocol, or even an IR protocol, will have the form of a command, sometimes followed by some data. For example a volume command might be some hex number, followed by a second hex number to set the volume to a specific value. In IP or IR, this information is encoded in a specific way. Via IP the encoding is pretty easy for a computer to deal with, and may be as simple as converting ASCII values to hex. For IR, a variety of schemes are used, that typically encode the values of 1 and 0's into different lengths of a modulated IR for a one or zero. Sometimes these are further encoded with schemes such as NRZ, and other schemes to recognize and correct for errors.

RF allows for a variety of transmission protocols, AM, FM, SSB, etc. The device you are searching for, will need to be able to talk using this transmission protocol. Then you will need to know how to format the data to be sent to that device, to reproduce the appropriate command.

I have never seen any general device available in the market, that allows for generic learning of RF transmission protocols, and the reproduction of those transmission schemes.

Any time I've been forced to use a device designed for RF control, and been forced to control it with IP or IR, I've ended up "hacking" the RF remote, and basically added wires to control the remote via a microcontroller, that "pushes" the buttons by closing switch contacts wired into the RF remote where the push buttons are.

Unless the system in question was designed to work with RF from the remote, I've always been forced to resort to a "hack" like that detailed above.

If you buy URC direct, they have a piece that operates like the Global Cache translator. Look for both.

These are not available on the market, but can be assembled. The standard items used to create such solutions are a) a well-stocked lab, and b) a well-informed engineering staff.


the specific command scheme, data correction, RF modulating scheme, and frequency, as well as the exact

Is it possible? Yes. Open a wallet somewhere.

Gentlemen,

First off, many thanks for everyone's time and effort in responding. Here is a little more information and some responses to your queries above.

The issue is the custom box was designed to respond to Pronto Pro TSU-6000 commands. We were able to extract those from the Pronto and test them in URC MX-series remotes without issue. The frequency as I said was 418MHz, band 3 (most likely narrowband). So with that, I established that I could somehow emulate the typical iOS apps but rather than use an IR dongle or Wifi-2-IR gateway, could somehow find an RF issuing gateway.

The IP-2-IR devices already exist from GlobalCache and for IP-2-RF@433MHz already at Mediola! Just not 418MHz that I saw yet...

I just can't seem to even find an IR-to-RF converter at worst case. The modulation is clearly similar to the IR Amplitude Modulating method. The hex codes contain about 80 words, IR carrier frequencey 52kHz but with the MX-series or Pronto, this is being carried out at 418MHz RF.

Surely, if I can get from RF remotes to IR, there's got to be a way to go also go the RF no?

And the box can NOT receive any IP signals or triggers whatsoever. It has to be via RF manifested from IR signal.

Hope that helps gents. Many thanks once more for your expertise!

Read my signature. You haven't seemed to notice it yet.

What are you trying to control?

You said


but now you say you have IR signals... and you just need to send them via RF, if I get it right.
You basically have to invent a simpler TSU6000. See, the 6000 "converts" IR signal information to an RF form which, when received by its mating receiver, "converts" it to IR. Chances are good that the so-called conversion is just demodulation from RF, and the information is the IR signal itself, maybe modified in some way so as to maintain intelligibility, but certainly not transformed in any way.


As bcf said, ther are SO MANY ways to send something by RF that your equipment has to exactly match whatever you use for this box.

Here's an idea -- the PowerMid. This receives an IR signal, then transmits it in a manner understandable by the Pronto IR receiver; the PowerMid receiver then turns the info into an IR signal. First, I don't know if the PowerMid operates at 418 mHz or... is the other frequency 433 mHz? I don't remember. So you have to verify that it works at the frequency you are using.

Second, years ago the PowerMid used to be used with Euro Prontos and RF remotes. You'd send a signal from an RF remote, say, for a ceiling fan, to the receiving portion of the PowerMid. It would convert the signal to IR, which you would teach to the Pronto. Then the Pronto was set to send this signal by RF, and it worked the ceiling fan! If your RF frequency is the same as the PowerMid, you should be able to think up a way to use it. Chance are that it's on Euro frequencies, though, which won't work on your equipment.

Maybe you need to change the frequency of your equipment. It's a one-off box, so modifying it doesn't make it any more strange.

The RFTX-1 will do what you want.

Ernie, thanks for replying again.

I did see your footer. Thing is this is a custom avionics box on a privatejet. There is no OEM branding marking other than the plane manufacturer. It manages inflight entertainment. We are trying to substitute the clunky Pronto for a sexier solution.

Extracting the "IR type" codes using ProntoNG Edit gave us a good output of all the functions in pronto hex format. Re-importing that into MX980 has allowed the retransmission of those successfully somehow in RF mode.
I must add, there is NO Pronto RF base station. The onboard RF module is doing that happily.

I do know its 418MHz because that is both the North American spec for both the TSU6000 as well as the MX remote.

The boss is getting frustrated with the Pronto... so...The end goal is trying to reuse these IR codes (for sake of definition) in any iOS app for sake of easy favorites, layouts etc.

There is network LAN available as well as Wifi full-time. I am desperately trying to find a clever way to pull this off fellas.

Thanks for the brainstorming everyone :)

P.S. This article is very interesting [Link: davehouston.org]

iimig, do these connect then together over RS232 or something? Many thanks! I'm going to pull the cutsheets and check it out.


Update: Looks like a special interconnecting cable between the two.. I wonder if these will really work for custom pronto IR based codes.

Are the lighting commands limited in anyway disallowing the custom use of AV commands when modelling in CCP software you think?

Cheers! :)
Kyle

Global cache iTach IR to URC RFTX1. Using On Controls, I can take a hex command, output it via IR to the RFTX1, then it outputs RF to control URC RF stuff.

Have you tried looking inside this box? I'm guessing the plane company didn't make their own entertainment system.

VWpower44,

Thanks buddy, I did look at the Itach IP2IR product previously.

But I don't follow how you would connect to the RFTX-1. Doesn't that ONLY work with the MRX-?? series network controllers?

Are you saying the input on the RFTX-1 is basically a glorified IR input?

That would be great, cause the Globalcache allows many more apps than simply the CCP design solution.


Neurod,

I have tried. Once I was able to expose this, it looked like the steel blue box was sealed apart from its high grade cabling attachments. I was desperately trying to look for any OEM markings :)

Kyle

I guess you probably could say the input on the RFTX-1 is a glorified IR input. There is nothing special about the cable other than the fact it has an extra ring and conductor for power.

The port routing allows you to output any devices commands through the RFTX-1. For example, I have used it to send MSC-400 trigger codes directly from a KP-4000, wirelessly.