I have been a professional installer for overe 30 years. I've installed every kind of consumer entertainment system you can imagine. I'v attentended all the seminars and classes. I have a good reputation and receive tons of referrels. I do however need to unload something thast is bothering me.

Of all the systems I've installed nothing gives me more trouble than IR repeater systems. It seems endless hours are necessary to fine tune these buggers. Interference is an ever present problem, range is always an issue, missed commands and ignored commands have caused whatever hair I have left to turn gray.

I've communicated with the manufactures and somehow have always been able to get the system running, perhaps not as effiencly as I would like, but at least running. I do not feel good walking away from jobs like that. My nature is to deleiver as advertised, but some things are just out of my control.

Am I the only guy dealing with this problem? Or are we all hurting? Please let me know. Something needs to be done to force these manufactures to produce a product that works out of the box.

Thanks,
George

I've installed many IR repeater systems, and although there have been a few problems, I haven't experienced anything that couldn't be fixed reasonably. Nothing works "out of the box" all the time :-)

It's not really the IR repeater manufacturers' fault -- most of the problems are a result of the "infrared communications medium". There is no standardized infrared protocol, so the repeaters have to accomodate a wide range of frequencies, formats, and interference. It's impossible to design a "one size fits all" IR receiver, and if they did, no one could (or would want to) afford it.

Rather than blame the IR repeater manufacturers, you should complain to the COMPONENT makers, and try to convince them to adopt a standardized IR format -- one with all discrete codes :-)

I've had a few receivers latch open and clog the pipeline for the rest of the system, and I once had to change the type of bugs that I was using to accomidate the Yamaha codes; but that's about the extent of it,

Well, I've never actually had a bad problem with any type of IR comms. Brent is right, you do have to watch the frequency of the codes. I've had the most luck with the audioplex line of IR stuff. Great in direct sunlight and Plasma resistant. They make a dual proccessing unit that rocks.

yeah, I have a few gray hairs due to IR systems. The best solution is to avoid them when possible. If you are doing a Crestron system for example try to spec in equipment that uses RS-232. If you have to use IR try to spec equipment that has an IR plug in on the back. Makes installs prettier and usually works better without interference problems. Lastly, I would say to keep a log of the equipment that causes the most problems, I have most poblems with sat receivers, then find out exactly what the IR protocol is. There are some tricks to make the difficult IR commands record better.

Thon is absolutly right, wired IR and RS-232 work the best, I just did a job and had trouble with the niles system irp2+ and nothing worked right so we have to go back next week and figure out what the hell the problem is. Wired ir is alot easier and more full proof than emiters.

George
Be patient......When working with IR systems I have found the biggest problem is crossed wires or using some of the generic emitters that some equipment comes with. (ex. vcrs, sat.) Find the manufacturer of your choice and stick with their product. I prefer using Xantech products. They started the IR revolution. Thon is exactly right... hard wire when possible. If you get in a bind call tech support... they can walk you thru your system and generally find the problem.

What kind of IR hardware do you use? I've had the kind of experiences you describe with both Xantech and Niles Audio, and have found that using Xantech exclusively has eliminated 90% of the controllable problems. Niles, much as I like them, just does not have the depth of experience, breadth of product, nor tech support talent of Xantech in the IR arena. Mixing the two brands of hardware in a system was a nightmare for us.

Glue all the flashers on with fish tank repair silicone as Xantech suggests. Many of our remaining service calls are for flashers that fell off from age or a hot enviroment inside a cabinet.

Right. They can be a bear.
What seemed to be interference, in a reasonably dark room, was taken care of by two layers of blue painter's tape over the eye of a Xantech dinky link, where the IR somehow passed through the tape....

A Malibu home where the IR would not work for an hour in the afternoon because the sun reflected off the chopping seas, sending millions of random pulses of IR through the windows...the drapes could not then be closed because they were IR controlled....

A Somfy Roman shade remote that put out such an intense signal that it blew out three LEDs in series on a Niles IRP6+....

And RIGHT ON to anybody who can collect and disseminate the names and email addresses of any of the manufacturer's people who can influence IR command structures. Xantech people have told me that the manufacturers do not seem to want to listen. I missed going to CES this year, where I was going to flog every manufacturer I could about the stupid lack of discrete ons and offs et cetera....

And I must agree about Xantech over Niles. It always infuriates me that Niles boxes are made with two sets of tiny screws at different angles, so you can never moount it so you can get to it. Their "flying splices" are also accidents waiting to happen. That they say they require two conductor shielded means that you have to limit installation in open walls to one brand forever, amen. (You should be able to use CAT-5 for this, but it takes a good understanding of CAT-5 properties to get how to do it.)

And, yes, I am accurate when I push for installing the IRs inside the chassis by telling my clients, "Oh, the IR LEDs? Those are the little things that always fall off the front of the unit." I have never had a warranty problem with a unit that I opened to insert an IR LED.

I will continue to use Niles in an emergency and Xantech otherwise. That is probably 90% of the battle.

We have been using the Jamo products and I was told that they are the same as Xantech. I have had a few problems where the R-200 is mounted too close to the TV chassis and was interfering with other receivers(The talkback light was on a little and this could only be seen in a darkened room). I have also had 2 installations where adding a second receiver (an R-300) caused poor operation on the original system. I solved this by running the second receiver with separate power supply and emitters.

Does anyone know for a fact that the Jamo and Xantech units are the same? The Jamo units are a few bucks cheaper.

Someone on this forum recommended using shielded wire for IR systems. Is this a big help?

I think that the sonnance eguip. is also just re-tagged Xantech too. (tell me if i'm wrong...) If I remember right it's a few bucks cheaper too.

I would say shielded wire is not really necessary, because most problems arise from mis installation, Sunlight, or the emitters falling off.

And yes, sonance is repackaged Xantech, as is soundoliers stuff...

A good way around the sunlight is the audioplex stuff...up to 50 feet in direct sunglight.