On September 3, 2009 at 23:26, Daber said...
| As to the original post, you seem to suggest its all or nothing. One installer I interview tells me Denon receivers are crap.
I say that I don't understand the thinking processes of the engineers who design them. Even though I now have an okay relationship with their national trainer, I still don't get it. The best metaphor I can think of is that Denon is like a High Maintenance woman whom you're in love with: it's gonna be a pain in the ass, the demands will be unreasonable, you're in love so you're gonna do what she asks, and, in the end, you'll think the BJ was worth it all. I'm just not in love with any product because at some level all products are whores.
Another tells me he ONLY uses Denons.
Hope the poor guy doesn't read that last paragraph.
I've heard people say Logitech Harmony stuff is incredible yet the next guy tells me he only has horror stories.
It is incredible for a DIYer who has no problem dicking around with it endlessly. For an installer, a product that requires that is death: we can't just make it work, get paid, and go away. We need to use products that DO NOT require constant tweaking.
My point is, I dont mind (and in fact I enjoy) doing research to find the components of a home theater that are suited to me. I am, after all the one is who paying for it and using it.
Yeah, but look what just happened above: you seem to be confused, that is, you don't know enough to make clear judgments or comments about the guy who loves, the guy who hates Denon; nor about the people who love or hate Logitech.
I believe that if you can see people who hate product and others who don't, and you don't clearly understand the situation, you don't actually know enough to "find the components of a home theater that are suited to [you]"
What I am looking for though, is someone who will install it properly and professionally.
I will do that for you.
On September 4, 2009 at 12:18, Daber said...
Its weird I have heard really mixed things about the logitechs. People seem to love them or hate them.... Why don't you like them?
Yeah, my point again. Is a guy who asks that last question qualified to decide which remote to use?
On September 3, 2009 at 15:50, Dave in Balto said...
Any way, to the OP, you sound like every client that has ever shopped me on the Internet, and this is what I say to them. No problem, time and materials, special rate being that you are buying all of your own gear.
The "special rate" means that, since I cannot make any profit on the product yet must pay the same overhead to stay in business, you will have the pleasure of buying whatever you want wherever you want, and I will stay in business by making sure that I make enough to be there when and if you want me to make a change to the system.
Don't forget that profit is not evil: it's what pays for the doors to stay open and for the trucks to roll.
There is no warranty on any of the installation,
I warranty that I connected each end of each wire to what looks to me like the right thing. On your side, I've got years and years of experience doing this stuff, so I won't do anything dumb. Unless the manufacturer you choose thinks in very strange ways (see my Denon comments above).
that time includes reading all of the manuals from front to back,
I'll only read what I need to read if any questions come up. I won't just read the entire thing.
and things probably won't work 100%
They will work 100%, or not (that's the digital world, you know); and "work" must include running in third or fourth gear if I don't happen to know that there are five gears...just an analogy, but the gears are not marked on the knob in a surround receiver.
because it took me years to learn the few brands that I do work with inside and out, and I only have a few days to work with your gear.
Exactly. Of course, I can spend a few more days with your gear, and get it perfect. But how does that sit with you, when one of your goals MUST be to save money?
On September 3, 2009 at 23:34, Daber said...
If they are selling a TV model that I can get cheaper elsewhere, why should I pay them?
Because the terms of buying that TV might be (search this site) that it will be brought to your front door and you are responsible for getting it off the truck and everything else involved. And if it's broken, you are responsible for shipping costs. And it may be gray market, having no warranty. And since I didn't make fifty bucks on it, I can't afford to put a problem with that TV ahead of a problem for a customer who bought his TV from me. Or to come look at it even once to give an opinion for free.
From another post:
It would be one thing is the cost they are charging me for the TV included their installation... But it doesnt. They charge an installation fee on top the the inflated TV price.
Gee, I paid $100 for this brake disc, and that doesn't include installation? Egads, man!
Read Post 22 again. It has happened.
On September 4, 2009 at 02:52, Avparts.com said...
Daber,
What you don't understand is that you are not only choosing the steak (ie. TV) for the chef (installer) to cook (install), but you are also choosing the ingredients (ie. receiver, speakers, remote, etc.) to marinate and cook the steak. What you are really doing is giving the recipe to the chef which determines how he has to cook it.
You DO realize that if the steak doesn't come out the way you want it, you will complain to the chef, right?
What everyone is trying to say is let the chef do what he was trained to do and let him cook you his signature dish. Only at that point can he impress you and give you an enjoyable meal.
As I said, I'll do it for you, and I'll charge what's needed to stay in business, but there will be strict adherence to the advice on my one bumper sticker:
STOP GLOBAL WHINING
Last edited by Ernie Bornn-Gilman on September 4, 2009 14:06.
