AnthonyZ, I do think that was unprofessional. Beat up on the sales guys. Joshod is trying his best, and he may have just made an honest mistake. If he was ignorant and/or trying to be deceptive I don't think he'd be here.
Joshod, since you've put yourself out there as something of a spokesperson, what you need to understand here is that you and EI are going up against a lot of baggage. Every year there is a new company that comes into this industry trying to change it and telling the integrators that what they do is going to be obsolete overnight. Needless to say that ruffles a lot feathers. Most of those companies have failed. While there are some interesting aspects to LW, the pitch sounds familiar to a lot of us. There have also be a full list of stereotypes in this thread.
Yes, an X-Panel is one solution to using a non-crestron touch panel with a Crestron system, but its not the only one. Counting the video processors, and X-Panel Crestron has 9 different ways to integrate a non-crestron touch panel. Granted these are typically used for more expensive touchpanels (SMART Boards, etc.), but you could hook an ELO, Planar, 3M whatever up to them.
Yes, you have to use Crestron's processors, but their processers start at $550 retail.
Based on my understanding, LW is more about configuration than programming. Crestron has tried that with System Builder with limited success. We're supposed to start making our money off of services rather than hardware, but we're supposed to do that while losing our programming revenue?
EI touts itself supporting a wide variety of 3rd party hardware, so you can specify your own. I went to your web site and counted 38 manufacturers in your "connected partners" program. I started doing the same thing on Crestron's site and hit 38 about 1/3 of the way through the "C"s alphabetically. That's kind of what they do. I'm not counting 3rd party software modules, either, by the way.
Yes, they do offer their own lighting control, T-stats, etc., but there is also advantages to that approach. Yes it makes programming/configuration simpler, but it also gives a unified look and feel to the devices in the installation, from keypads to touchpanels to lightswitches to keypads. The integrator can choose to spec almost all crestron hardware or to spec very little Crestron hardware.
When you compare hardware (touchpanels, control processors), yours is more expensive than theirs at MSRP. That's comparing a PRO2, which is one step down from the top of the line dedicated processor to EI's LifeController, by the way.
Maybe its unfounded, but in my opinion it seems as though EI has yet to find an identity for itself. It's priced and seems to be being sold as a high-end solution, but on the other hand you're in Best Buy, which can't help but dilute the brand. To top that off with the DSC partnership touting how now anyone can "get into a rewarding new business very quickly with almost no learning curve," has got to ruffle some feathers. Russound is next, then Monster. This isn't directed at you personally, but at least have some respect for what we do and how we do it.
This is great for EI and I wish you guys the best. I think the LifeSupport business model is great for EI. I'm a huge proponent of recurring revenue and you need volume to make that work. It doesn't, however, seem to be great for the integrator.
I give you guys a lot of respect for putting your money where your mouth is with the offers you've made to those on this forum, and even more respect for the abuse you and Steve have taken and taken professionally.
I think EI has a lot of potential, but it has a long way to go. If you guys have backed off of the high end market to cut your teeth with the Best Buy and DSC projects, let Vista stabilize a little, and gain support for more 3rd party hardware beyond computers and standard computer peripherals, then that might not be a bad plan.
The key is that you need to give integrators a compelling reason from a business standpoint to take the time to learn your product and in a lot of ways re-learn what they do, re-establish partnerships, etc. For me, I haven't seen that.
Let's use DLewis as an example. What you suggested with the Russound system is a very standard approach. It positions them as the distributed audio company and you as the control company. That puts you head to head with Crestron/AMX, etc. and you aren't going to win that battle, at least not anytime soon.
I would have rather seen you dig a little deeper. We know he wants 11 zones of music, all with access to the same music and to be able to play different songs in each zone or the same song at a different place in each zone. Thats a classic example of streaming digital media in my mind. You answered the same question for RadioRahim asked a different way in one of the other threads. Use media centers, or extenders. The other option would be uPnP devices.
I would really have liked the next question to be "DLewis, is the capability to also play the same music in sync in many/all zones important to you." If not, the extenders/MCEs or simple appliances like a Roku could be a great solution. If so, they I would love to hear that you guys have wrapped a nice interface around slimserver to make it simple and intuitive in the same interface as the rest of LW. That's where you guys will have an edge. Take a completely different approach.
Another great example of this is the video. We know that DLewis wants 7 feeds of HD/SD to each room. We don't now why. We know some of it is live TV, but what is the rest? Are we talking about 7 different types of media, or are four of them cable TV? Is the ability to watch DVDs in different rooms really the ability to watch DVDs in different rooms or is it the ability to movies in different rooms? Why view this from an analog perspective around digital content? This could be another great application of extenders/mutiple MCEs and streamed digital content. Does DLewis really want a bunch of round silver coasters or maybe he just hasn't been exposed to CinemaNow, MovieLink, Netflix watch now, Mediadownloads.walmart.com, etc.
I've been following EI for quite a while now. The last meeting I had related to it left me frustrated as most have. I get that MCE/Windows based media distribution and control is a different approach. I get how powerful it is and how much potential it has. What I don't understand is what sets EI apart from comparable software companies, i.e. HomeSeer, mControl, cQc, In2, etc. and why there is such a hefty premium for it?
I had a rep recently tell me that his favorite part of LW was "Online Spotlight" I agree that Online Spotlight is cool and one of the keys to MCE, but come on... I asked another rep the same question about comparable software companies and got, "Well what matrix switches do they support?" I responded by asking what I'd want a matrix switch for in a digital media distribution environment.
Show me unique solutions, not your name stuck on a Pelham Sloane touch panel for twice the price. I have enough vendors doing that. You want to fill hardware niches, give me extenders. Give me sideshow devices. No one else is going that. I can find 100 companies offering me touchpanels and XP-embedded computers.
There are integrators that get MCE and get how to make windows stable. Now tell me why you are the best software solution for my business. I don't see EI as a Crestron/AMX competitor, at least not yet.
Don't tell me because you support standards. RS232, RS485, IR, zigbee, Z-Wave, etc. are all standards, too, and the incumbents support them with or without 3rd party hardware. Why is WSD better? Why do I care if I have to convert it all to IR or RS232 anyway? Why are there more manufacturer's in our space that are supporting everything but WSD?
Don't tell me it's because you support more 3rd party hardware when you only support a fraction of what the incumbents do. Don't tell me its because you are lower cost, and please don't tell me it's because you are telling every big box and security company they can "get into a rewarding new business very quickly with almost no learning curve." Take a look at any of the other threads on this forum and tell me how your average security guy or big box for business customer service guy is going to fare with those topics? Most of those aren't even the complicated ones.
Not to pick on you specifically, but that cascading Russound thing is a perfect example. In the IT world that would make perfect sense to gain inputs and outputs when you link/cascade something. What if that was one of EI's "no learning curve" partners that had sold that to a customer? Do you go back and tell them that they have to buy all new hardware and complete rewire their system now? I had a very similar experience going into clean up the mess left by one of the "we can do, too" It companies in a major installation. They wired a quickmedia matrix like it was an Ethernet switch and couldn't figure out why nothing worked. Programming control systems isn't all we do. Its one small piece of it.
Joshod, this isn't directed at you personally by any means. I'm very interested in what you have to say and what EI has to offer. I think the opportunities for the right solution in that space are tremendous. That is why I resurrected this forum. I just haven't haven't seen a compelling reason to make EI/LW a part of my business yet, and many reasons not to. Those aren't misconceptions. I understand the product. I understand the MCE environment, along with embedded appliances, media servers, uPnp, WSD, commodity hardware, etc. Believe me, I have many frustrations with the incumbents in this industry. I have on the other hand seen reasons to make MCE a part of my business. There are a few missing pieces, but its very close to being very relevant. I understand and in many ways support the paradigm. Give me real reasons to want to support EI as part of it.
In the meantime, please realize that if EI wants me and other integrators to respect what they do, respect what we do. If the concept that you guys are building a farm club for real integrators is true and you aren't just aren't just using us and whomever else will write that check for the opening order and sign for the annual commitment to build your own LifeSupport recurring revenue stream base and the systems are stable & the support & service are there (i.e. the whole experience), then great. Exposure is good for this industry. Understand, though that you can do as much damage as you can good to this industry with this strategy and that is going to make a lot of us very skeptical. The last thing we need is another new company touting themselves as the best thing since sliced bread and giving another customer or another builder another bad experience with half-baked home electronics system installations.
