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Original thread:
Post 11 made on Saturday December 29, 2012 at 06:10
Presinium
Long Time Member
Joined:
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September 2011
53
I've implemented Total Control Systems ranging from 1 room to a maximum currently of 24 rooms of control.  That being said, it was pretty amazing to see the scalability of the solution and it sold me on the solution pretty much 100%. 

Within my network of dealers (we all work together and share resources, etc), we have done around 30-40 systems in the last year.

Without a doubt the biggest obstacle with Total Control is the network.  At a recent Total Control training seminar here in Los Angeles it was interesting to see a very clear split of dealers in the room.  Half of the dealers said they had troubles with TC and weren't very happy with it while the other half was arguing with them saying how much they loved it. At the end of the day the determining factor was simple - what kind of networks were being used and the dealers level of experience implementing networks. (Hint: STOP USING APPLE)

It's not necessarily that the dealer/programmer needs to be some networking guru - just that a standard $59.99 router from Best Buy simply can't handle the capacity of having a network-based system on it simultaneously with the rest of the traffic.

I won't install a system unless a client lets me completely redo their network - it's simply not an option.  That being said, the general price range before installation & programming that I sell is what I call the "Starter Kit" (Processor, AP, Router) ranges from $1,000 to $1,500 dependent on the AP and Router I am specifying.

You then need to add the control option (iOS, Remotes, Keypads), music options, etc. based on your needs.  I would say for 1-room basic control the average Total Control "Starter Package" ends up being around $2,500-$3,000 after all is said and done.  (Controller, iOS, Basic Remote, Router, High-End Wi-Fi Access Point, Installation, Programming)

That being said I can easily bring up cons about it... URC is definitely new to the TCP/IP world that is clear... but I am willing to stick with them through the obstacles as this is a great line!

Pros
  • Cost - I just proposed a system that wanted basic whole-home control in a 15,000 sq ft home.  Crestron came in at around $550,000 while TC came in at around $250,000 - in this case the system was almost identical in functionality (although I am sure Crestron would do more on the interface side).  This allowed me to keep the client because when they saw the Crestron bid their faces went pale... at least I had the TC backup proposal which they promptly accepted.
  • Programming - Wow... just...wow... the programming in this is unbelievably easy and it is actually pretty flexible when it comes down to it (more-so then C4 that is FOR SURE).  I could easily say Programming is a con to (lots missing that would make this the best solution by far)
  • Expandability - Not only can this system expand to 32 zones which i rarely go past (2 jobs in my companies history so far), it is easy to expand and doesn't take much engineering - if CAT6 (or CAT5e if you still run that) is available, there is a solution... makes our industry much easier to expand and work with.  Prices range from $900 to start with a system up to the sky is the limit
    TC + Just Add Power = :-)
  • Audio Distribution - Their audio distribution is second-to-none... no compression and surround sound/stereo sound working together seamlessly.  Reminds me of Crestron DM audio distribution at like 1/10th the cost.  I wish this was completely open-architecture TCP/IP so I could put these on every Crestron bid from now on... URC?! PLEASE?!
  • Remote Controls - Their remotes are the best you can get in a system like this without question.  They need more, yes... ($500-600 pricepoint WiFi Remote please!!!) but what they have customers love and I have beat every C4 bid I have gone against so far because of that fact alone (2 bids so far hah).
  • MFS Switches - I love that URC has these MFS switches which essentially help me put a backbone into the network infrastructure without programming a managed ethernet switch.  Makes working with their uncompressed audio a breeze.
Cons
  • They seem to be slow to update and don't have adequate tech support to handle the market they want to handle... i mean they close by 3 PM on the West Coast!  Luckily I never call them and just email the small things I couldn't fix myself
  • They seem to do updates to the system that break other features while fixing some.  They need to have two options for Accelerator "Release Candidate" and "Production" so those of us brave enough can test the updates before they come out to everyone. 
  • While they claim a SDK is coming, right now they have limited 2-way ability.  This hasn't really held me back and I actually kind of like it because I use it as a way to sell the much more expensive Crestron solution.
  • They are slow to respond to updates and problems.  When iOS6 came out the system wasn't working well for 1-2 months before the fix came out - NOT OKAY, luckily I had work arounds for all the problems but that could have been much worse.
  • Off-Site Programming has been publicly advertised (even to my customers via their press releases etc) since day 1 yet they have provided NO UPDATE on this ... where it is or why it is taking forever ... their respond? "Soon"  They said they would stop doing things like this when it was brought to their attention but sure enough a new press release just advertised it again... it's like their marketing team doesn't know the product (surprise?) and just knows what it was "supposed to have" 
    Note: I have a computer on most jobs and have solved this that way in the meantime.
  • They don't communicate well in general - I need to know everything that is going on.. if they are having a problem they generally won't admit it (everyone knows that is a URC problem in general not just TC).  I need a "known issues" area AND a "update history' so I know what the heck is in the newest update I just did... I also need a "Feature Roadmap" with updates to all the stuff they are working on so I know what is coming - how else can I engineer my systems to easily adapt to the new options?
  • DEBUGGING NOT INCLUDED - this is one I recently realized - you can't debug the darn system... when it locks up.. why?  Your guess is as good as mine!  
  • Their SNP-1 (web audio player) is already outdated and needs the services my clients want like Spotify and the service I want (heh) Songza.  Sonos has these but is a pretty terrible solution.  I do love the vTuner in the SNP-1 though, Radio Paradise is my go-to!
  • Their included drivers kind of suck - but that isn't really a con since you should be building your own for systems like this anyway...   They make it easy to use what they made and EDIT them though and this makes it WAY faster then starting from scratch (most drivers can be DONE in 15-30 minutes and used for every system from then on).
They aren't perfect - but at the price they are still a huge player... they have become my largest product line and I will support them until they really screw me or until I decide to build my own control infrastructure.  

Their product is rock-solid and in my opinion best in the industry in terms of value - it's really just the internal things that need to be resolved for this company to be the only one I use...

Last edited by Presinium on December 31, 2012 15:37.
Josh Edman
Los Angeles, CA
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