Thanks for that very useful summary Andy. One more question:

How about operating the box if it's in a cabinet. Do you need to use an NTL (I like to call their predecessor Cable & Useless...) kit or can I connect it through my existing IR Remote Eye connection being used with other components at the moment?
Also, is it definitely the case that this direct connection still has the IRDA problems associated with it?
In other words, can you explain how this connection works, what it does and does not do?

Thanks again

I have mine in clear view so am not wholly sure...

However I'd suspect you'd need an extender that could also handle the IrDA stuff...which probably means getting the NTL version. But it really depends on the spec. of your Remote Eye.

Not sure what the "direct connection" is - presume this is the socket on the back of the box? If so, I believe this is for things like an extender and other, as yet unnamed, enhancements.

As a slight aside, it's alleged that the reason for doing the IR setup like this in the first place was to allow the cable box to control a host of other home equipment (at some point).

Hopefully the Brain of Britain that thought that one up (and has evidently never been to a home electronics shop and seen the host of such controllers already available for Lord knows how many years) has been fired. But having been a C&W customer for some years I very much doubt it - lack of forethought and technical know how seems to be a pre-requisite of most of their employees (with a small number of exceptions).

Is anybody else out there using a cable box in a cabinet?

Andy

The TIVO idea wont work, at least not yet. It currently does not support digital cable, though analogue is fine.

TIVO obviously have the same problem as us with th IR. Though their web site implies it will be sorted some time next year.

Thanks Duncan...

Looks like we have to hope TiVO can make them see sense.

Presumably these things are hard wired to whatever they attach to?

So maybe there is hope. 180 quid for a Pronto, 300 quid for the TiVO and maybe, just maybe we'll be able to have one remote. Plus HID will be able to watch even more Coronation Street. Great.h

I've just bought a TiVO (literally tonight - it's still going through the 3 hour set-up. I'll probably be in bed by the time it finishes.

Interesting points: the TiVO looks at your postcode and tells you what is available in your area - I chose the Telewest but got the analogue channels coming up.

The blaster is able to control the TV and Hi-Fi as well as the set-top boxes....

You get a range of options to try during set-up for the IR range, including different frequencies etc.

I skipped most of this 'cos I have Teleworst Digital and haven't connected the blaster yet. I'm at a stage of setup that takes an hour or so - so I can't got back yet and re-do the IR options.

Over the next week or so, I'll try connecting the blaster and forcing a signal until the channel changes (or doesn't), I may try making it Sky, or remapping the favourites or the plethora of options between the TiVO and cable box.

When I activated the TiVO, they said it should work soon with cable digital and that I haven't bought it too soon. TiVO also does software upgrades down the phone line, I may have to hang on for this - one may be the patch for IRDA.

If anyone has any rocket scientist ideas, please email me. Otherwise, please hang on - I'll report progress at the weekend - I'll do what I can in the meantime. I'm not going to answer anyone who just asks for an update, in fact, you'll go straight into junk-mail!

John

Probably ought to start a thread on how TiVO works!

When you say it comes up with channels telling you what's available, how does it do this?

Presumably you have an input either direct to the cable itself or from the box? Or do you just have a TiVO box (no decoder) and it does the decoding (leaving you to pay the original provider?).

What's the Blaster mentioned? Is this from the cable co or TiVO?

If what you have is digital cable, then I'd say you have bought the box too soon if it doesn't work yet :)

And finally, I can't see IrDA additions being software patches as it would seem that the hardware is significantly different...If it wasn't I would have thought the Pronto could be updated in a similar way...

Sorry to be a bit dense on the TiVO stuff - tried to have a quick search but found little of any use. If there are any decent sites on the UK version, please let me know as I suspect this may be one route to achieving what we want...

The TiVo has a modem and phones home for TV listing information. I assume TiVo have a postcode to cable corp DB so they can tell which cable corp listing information to download.

As for IrDA hardware and software, if your software can go fast enough the basic 115.2kHz SIR protocol can be output by pretty much and LED.

The problem is that the Pronto can't go fast enough.

With normal consumer electronics, the IR signals are transmitted on a carrier wave of arround 30-40kHz which is modulated between signal and no signal. The resulting data rate is approximatly 10kHz.

The IrDA system does not modulate a carrier wave.
Instead it simply sends the data at 115.2kHz and
the receiver has to synchronise and receive the
data in one hit.

Thanks for this.

So if the receiver hardware is up to the decoding job, a software patch may work...

Then again, if it was, why wouldn't they have included it from the off and left it there dormant...

Who knows. Maybe software dev. costs.

Will wait and see what TiVO UK come up with and see what gives...more chance of this bearing fruit than expecting NTL/C&W to do anything.

Thanks again
Andy

I don't know if there's a UK version of the TiVo web site, but in the meantime you could visit the US version at http://www.tivo.com There's also a forum for TiVo at [Link: avsforum.com]

I don't have a TiVo but I do have the similar ReplayTV (here in the States) and it's absolutely great, so I would strongly recommend that you all run out and get TiVo as soon as possible, even if you have a normal cable box that works just fine with the Pronto!

Rob.

Hi, during the first part of the set-up, TiVO asks for your postcode, dials in and retrieves the services available in your area like On Digital etc (this varies by region from what I understand).

I tried to fool it that I had cable analogue so it downoaded the channel configuration for this and spent 3 hours indexing the channels and the viewing guide. This then decided that I would be best watching terestrial TV through the cable box and I ended up having to reconfigure it for no cable or satalite.

The blaster is part of TiVO, you get a plug in IR tansmitter which hangs over the front of the cable box, and it uses this to change the satalite channels. I told it I had a Pace box and it suggested 10 or so different code combinations for me to try, none worked.

It also seems powerful enough to control the TV and Hi-Fi.

I've spoken to TiVO about this and they aren't sure why it's not compatible, they think it's because they don't have the channel numbers for all the cable regions (Sky use one set of channels throughout GB but cable compnaies put MTV for example on different channels in different regions).

So far it's not looking good but I'll have another play once I get more familiar with the interface.

I haven't really bought the TiVO too early as I'm dumping cable because of all these problems (and poor picture quality). I'm fighting my Feudal Superiors just now to be allowed to put a Sky dish up.... I don't hold out much hope - maybe I can use the Human Rights Act against them! Freedom of information?

Probably as much chance as using the Pronto with the cable box!

Hi Folks,

Here's another update on the NTL stb situation:-

NTL, the United Kingdom's largest cable provider, has contracted for
750,000 Scientific-Atlanta Explorer set-tops over the
next 18 months.

The Explorer is a powerful set-top, capable of delivering real-time,
two-way interactive applications - such as Internet access, e-mail
over TV, T-commerce, enhanced TV, and video-on-demand from
DivaTV - to consumers in the UK.
NTL will be able to offer its customers immediate delivery of films,
at speeds of around 4Mbit/s. This is double the speed at which
video could be delivered over ADSL, and gives a level of sound and
picture quality that makes VOD on cable viable proposition. All customers
will have access to the VOD service in their basic cable tv package
which includes the ability to pause, fast-forward and rewind.

VOD will replace NVOD (Near Video On Demand), which at present
provides customers with the choice of ordering films every 15 minutes.
"This is the next logical step for the best use of our bandwidth," said an
NTL spokesman. "It marks an interesting change in that the whole notion
of scheduled television is under threat."

NTL made a $6 million equity investment in DIVA, opening the door for
DIVA in the U.K. and the rest of Europe.

"We expect to be putting service in two headends, one with a Cable &
Wireless
system and another with NTL, and those should launch in April 2001," says
DIVA's executive vice president and CTO. "NTL is making a big commitment to
VOD, and a big one with us."

DIVA's content providers include big name and independent movie studios
such as Dreamworks, Disney, Universal, Artisan and Unapix; "special
interest"
providers such as Discovery Channel, CNN & Viacom.
Adult & children's programming will come from among others,
BBC, Granada, NBC, Nelvana, Realm & Time Warner.
A music catalogue, past & present, will be provided by BMG,
EMI & Sony.
Customers are expected to pay £1.00 to £3.00 for films, 10p to 50p for
television programmes and 20p for up to 4 pop promo videos.

For monthly charge of approx. £7 subscribers will get 3 movies
and as much TV content as they can watch. Additional movies
will be charged at half price.

NTL implements Macrovision copy protection control capability in its
digital cable head end system software and copy protection capability in its
digital set-top boxes


With its faster processor and added memory, NTL can offer numerous
graphics-intensive applications that run simultaneously on the same
network to deliver a fast-paced, new-generation viewing experience for
users.

"The Explorer digital set-top will be tremendously successful in large part
due to the exciting interactive services that our partners are developing,"
says Michael P. Harney, corporate vice president and general
manager of Subscriber Networks at Scientific-Atlanta. "The new
Explorer stb will enable NTL to quickly enhance digital services to
increase revenue opportunities and improve competitive positioning."

.
Scientific-Atlanta is planning to make its first batch of 150,000 Explorer
set-top boxes available to NTL early in early Q2 2001.

In addition to the Explorer set-top family, Scientific-Atlanta can provide
operators with the headend hardware, software and system integration
support they need to deploy digital interactive networks. Scientific-Atlanta
has helped operators deploy in over 120 systems, passing over 33 million
homes.

Telewest have promised this service (VOD) for ages, I'm not holding my breath on this one. They said sometime next year (they said that last year as well).

TiVO update: the TiVO tries to set all your channels )including terestrial) up through the cable or set-top box if you specify one. Presumably because you get a better picture and digital teletext on some services.

This means that when I set up a cable or sky service, I only get one channel and have to do all the changing through the cable box so I've told TiVO I just have a standard ariel setup.

Telewest have finally agreed to swap me back to analogue cable after I threatened to disconnect the service.

This allows the TiVO and RC5000 to work and I'll be a lot happier - the additional digital features are nonsense as they are too slow and don't work.

Digital cable isn't worth the hassle in my opinion. Email through your telly? Nah, the Blueyonder broadband is the one Telewest service worth having!

To all --

Thanks. This thread has been extremely useful for me because I've recently bought a Nokia 9800 S digital satellite receiver and have come across the same problem in a different context -- I drive two TV sets from the box, one direct via SCART and one via an AV-Share high-frequency radio link with a back channel radio/IR link that allows you to use the normal IR controller in the remote location. Or NOT use it if you see what I mean. A "One for All" remote and radio link doesn't work either, or any combination of the above. i.e. the IR back channel can't handle the Nokia remote either!Grrr!

The Nokia handset is made by -- guess who -- Philips!

I will quote from the snotty and unhelpful letter I got from Nokia. (Guess who won't be buying any more Nokia products.)

<
Regarding the use with IR solutions, some of these systems do not handle.... blah blah.... the producers of this category of remote controls must contact Philips to adapt their systems, if possible, to the remote control protocol (called RCCM by Philips)>>

How about that then? A generation of multi-remotes and other sophisticated equipment, which is still being sold in stores to unsuspecting customers, like me, is being made redundant by the set-top-box manufacturers.

I appreciate the need for progress like anybody else, but this is like being stuck with a Betamax (which I didn't buy, by the way)

So, I'm hunting for an IR extender solution.

Best regards from Bob Millar (Hässelby, Sweden)

Hi, been reding this thread this morning having just bought a Marantz RC5000, and am on NTL digital, don't know what box I have till I get home and look, but if I've read right it should work for me as, as far as I know this area has neen NTL for a good while.

Did try it briefly last night and managed to get the on/off and to get it to switch 2 channels up but was then not responding.

The question is should I return the RC5000 as unsuitable and get my money back or persevere? (The salesman had assured me it worked with cable digital)

Thanks