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Topic:
Can't Learn Pace Digital Set Top Box Codes
This thread has 661 replies. Displaying posts 1 through 15.
Post 1 made on Monday November 15, 1999 at 04:19
Teresa Tunnell
Historic Forum Post
I've just been connected to Telewest's (UK) Active Digital service and have tried to learn the codes from the remote for the set top box (Pace D1000T). The Pronto learns the codes without any errors, however they do not work.

Could the frequency of the codes be too high for the Pronto? Is there anything I can do? This is a new box so there probably won't be any ccf's to download for quite a while.

Please help, I was just getting so used to using only one remote instead of five, now I'm back to multiple remotes.
OP | Post 2 made on Monday November 15, 1999 at 08:56
Teresa Tunnell
Historic Forum Post
I've had an email response from Pace to say that the remote uses 100KHz bursts. This is way above the 56KHz limit of the Pronto.

Is there any other way of getting the codes?
OP | Post 3 made on Monday November 15, 1999 at 10:02
Mike Huggins
Historic Forum Post
Have you tried the latest software ? It apparently will learn codes at higher frequencies (don't know anyone who's tried it yet though)

Mike
OP | Post 4 made on Tuesday November 16, 1999 at 03:58
Teresa Tunnell
Historic Forum Post
I've read Barry Gordon's paper on IR codes and understand a little bit more now. It appears that the Pronto must be 'seeing' the 100 KHz signal and is actually recording some sort of code although it does not work.

This is the code for:
Digit 1
0000 005a 0003 0003 0005 0007 0001 2403 0009 0442 0004 0004 0003 0004 000c 0442

Digit 2
0000 0059 0003 0003 0005 0007 0001 17f9 0007 044f 0004 0004 0003 0004 000a 044f

Digit 3
0000 005a 0003 0003 0005 0007 0001 02cc 0008 0442 0004 0004 0003 0004 0009 0442

So what has the Pronto seen. Is there any way to use ProntoUtil to get these codes to work? In fact, what is the maximum frequency that the Pronto can transmit.

By the way the software version I have is Sys V3.6 App V4.81 which I beleive is the latest.

Teresa
OP | Post 5 made on Tuesday November 16, 1999 at 05:08
Steve
Historic Forum Post
The codes you pasted seem extremely short. The result of those is that you are sending out a signal at (erm, not sure how to translate 5c into Hz, anyone?) that is simply 0001 2403 once, and 0003 0004 over and over again. It is possible that the Pace uses something like this, but quite unlikely. Other remotes send between 10 and 20 times as much as that.

My only suggestion is to try some of the techniques that Daniel mentions in one of his documents to try and get a clear signal.

If you can get pace to give you details on exactly what the pace is expecting (lead in/lead out, frequency, bit patterns, 0 representation, 0 representation etc..), you might be able to get somewhere.. This can be rather difficult to get however, I know Kenwood were of no help at all when I asked them.
OP | Post 6 made on Tuesday November 16, 1999 at 13:50
Steve Picken
Historic Forum Post
Teresa, Please could you clarify which version of the firmware you are using. Have you upgraded to the latest version? This might solve your problem and there are a number of RC5000 owners, myself included, who would like to know.

If you do upgrade and it solves your problem, it would be great if you could post the file here so we can use your codes.

Thanks,
Steve
OP | Post 7 made on Tuesday November 16, 1999 at 13:54
Steve Picken
Historic Forum Post
Sorry Teresa, you did already report your version. Could anyone confirm that this is the latest?

If so, this is a bummer...

Steve
OP | Post 8 made on Tuesday November 16, 1999 at 13:58
Steve Picken
Historic Forum Post
Yep, its the latest. Maybe the forthcoming release of the Marantz software might help, but I doubt it :-(

I'll capture what I'm currently getting in my Marantz, as it reports that it learns successfully, though doesn't work, the same symptoms as you are reporting.

Steve
OP | Post 9 made on Tuesday November 16, 1999 at 14:08
Steve Picken
Historic Forum Post
OK, here is what my RC5000 learned:

1:
0000 00b4 0003 0003 0003 0005 0003 0001 0002 0221 0004 0002 0003 0002 0009 0221

2:

0000 00b4 002f 004f 0003 0003 0001 0c77 0006 0221 0003 0001 0002 0002 0007 0221 0003 0003 0001 10d3 0007 0221 0003 0003 0001 1302 0006 0221 0003 0003 0001 1531 0008 0220 0003 0001 0002 0002 0009 0220 0003 0003 0001 02cd 0007 0220 0003 0003 0001 04fb 0006 0220 0003 0003 0001 072a 0006 0220 0003 0001 0002 0002 0006 0220 0003 0001 0002 0002 0006 0220 0003 0003 0001 0db6 0006 0220 0003 0001 0002 0002 0006 0220 0003 0001 0002 0002 0006 0220 0003 0003 0001 1442 0006 0220 0003 0003 0001 1671 0006 0220 0003 0001 0002 0002 0006 0220 0003 0001 0002 0002 0006 0220 0003 0003 0001 063c 0006 0220 0003 0003 0001 086b 0006 0220 0003 0001 0002 0002 0006 0220 0003 0001 0002 0001 0007 0220 0003 0003 0001 0ef7 0006 0220 0003 0003 0001 1126 0006 0220 0003 0001 0002 0002 0006 0220 0003 0001 0002 0001 0007 0220 0003 0003 0001 00f0 0006 0220 0003 0003 0001 031f 0006 0220 0003 0001 0002 0002 0006 0220 0003 0003 0001 077d 0006 0220 0003 0003 0001 09ab 0006 0220 0003 0003 0001 0bda 0006 0220 0003 0001 0002 0002 0006 0220 0003 0003 0001 1038 0006 0220 0003 0003 0001 1266 0006 0220 0003 0003 0001 1495 0006 0220 0003 0001 0002 0002 0006 0220 0003 0003 0001 0231 0006 0220 0003 0003 0001 0460 0006 0220 0003 0003 0001 068e 0006 0220 0003 0001 0002 0002 0006 0220 0003 0001 0002 0002 0006 1671

3:

0000 00b4 0002 0079 0003 0003 0001 0b9a 0006 0220 0003 0001 0003 0002 0006 0220 0003 0002 0002 0001 0008 0220 0003 0001 0003 0002 0007 0220 0003 0002 0002 0002 0007 0221 0003 0001 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0001 0003 0001 0007 0221 0003 0002 0002 0002 0006 0221 0003 0002 0002 0002 0006 0221 0003 0001 0003 0002 0006 0221 0003 0002 0002 0002 0006 0221 0003 0002 0002 0002 0006 0221 0003 0002 0002 0002 0006 0221 0003 0001 0003 0002 0006 0221 0003 0001 0003 0002 0006 0221 0003 0002 0002 0002 0006 0221 0003 0002 0002 0002 0006 0221 0003 0001 0003 0002 0006 0221 0003 0001 0003 0002 0006 0221 0003 0002 0002 0002 0006 0221 0003 0001 0003 0002 0006 0221 0003 0001 0003 0002 0006 0221 0003 0002 0002 0002 0006 0221 0003 0002 0002 0002 0006 0221 0003 0001 0003 0002 0006 0221 0003 0001 0003 0002 0006 0221 0003 0001 0003 0002 0006 0221 0003 0002 0002 0002 0006 0221 0003 0001 0003 0002 0006 0221 0003 0001 0003 0002 0006 0221 0003 0002 0002 0002 0006 0221 0003 0002 0002 0002 0006 0221 0003 0001 0003 0002 0006 0221 0003 0001 0003 0002 0006 0221 0003 0001 0003 0002 0006 0221 0003 0002 0002 0002 0006 0221 0003 0001 0003 0002 0006 0221 0003 0001 0003 0002 0006 0221 0003 0002 0002 0002 0006 0221 0003 0002 0002 0002 0006 0221 0003 0001 0003 0002 0006 0b9a

These are way different from your results!

Can we confirm where the limitation lies. Does it lie in the learning or the transmitting of codes?

I guess you could try transmitting one of the codes that looks sensible with the pronto, to see if it works with your machine?

Steve
OP | Post 10 made on Tuesday November 16, 1999 at 14:11
Steve Picken
Historic Forum Post
I've just re-run the test and for 1 I now report:

0000 00b4 0002 0079 0003 0003 0001 0a66 0004 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0008 0221 0003 0002 0003 0001 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0006 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0005 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0009 0221 0003 0002 0003 0001 0008 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0a66

Second time:

0000 00b4 0002 0079 0003 0003 0001 1659 0004 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0008 0221 0003 0002 0003 0001 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0006 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0005 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0009 0221 0003 0002 0003 0001 0009 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0009 0221 0004 0002 0003 0002 0008 0221 0004 0002 0003 0002 0008 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0221 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 1659

Third time:

0000 00b3 0002 0079 0003 0003 0001 0e98 0004 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0008 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0006 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0006 0224 0003 0002 0003 0001 0006 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0009 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0224 0003 0002 0003 0002 0007 0e98

No consistency here then. Can you at least get some consitentency in the learning?

Steve
OP | Post 11 made on Tuesday November 16, 1999 at 16:26
Steve Picken
Historic Forum Post
Teresa,
I have just sent Pace a request for some test codes. It would do no harm for you to send a similar request. I chose the Information technology email [email protected]:

Dear Sir/Madam,
I wonder if you could help me, and a number of other people in my situation.

I use a PACE Digital Cable box supplied by Cable & Wireless, DITV-1000, part number 541-4407101,
I am experiencing difficulty getting my programmable remote control to accept the codes for this product.

I understand that this problem is due to the high frequency that this box uses, and that my controller (Marantz RC5000, and Philips Pronto) is only able to learn codes up to a certain. However, I believe that this remote may be able to transmit higher frequencies, and it is possible to program the remote using software, if the IR codes are known. Would it be possible for you to supply the IR frequencies for some of the buttons please, as this would help me and a number of other people in the same position (see www.remotecentral.com for more background information)?.

The IR codes that I require are:

Power on/off;
Channel up;
Channel down;
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0

though obviously it would be a great help if you could supply the frequencies for the other buttons also.

I will post this email and your response up onto the web site.

Thank you very much in anticipation of your help on this frustrating problem.

Regards,
Steve Picken.



OP | Post 12 made on Tuesday November 16, 1999 at 16:28
Steve Picken
Historic Forum Post
[email protected] was a better selection, so I've emailed to them also.
OP | Post 13 made on Thursday November 18, 1999 at 04:19
Teresa Tunnell
Historic Forum Post
Steve,

Sorry in the delay in responding, but I've not been on the net for a while. I'm sure that I've got the latest software on my Pronto according to Philips smart connect site which also states that one of the new features includes learning higher frequency codes.

I have emailed Pace again for more information as you suggested and await a reply.

I am really frustrated by this as I already have five remotes fully programmed into my Pronto and everything works beautifully. Now I'm back to using multiple remotes, one for channels and the other for volume and aspect ratio switching. With digital broadcasts transmitting wide screen signals incorrectly, I am frequently having to manually overrride the auto switching on my TV. So whenever I change channel on cable I need to go to my other remote to change the picture aspect.

It seems strange that the codes your Marantz picks up are so different to mine. The carrier frequency yours picks up, 00b4, is quite different to what mine picks up, 005a, which translates to about 45KHz. I've tried changing the IR code frequency to 100KHz, but with no luck.

I will have more of a play with my Pronto tonight and see how consistent it is in learning the codes.

I'm determined to get this sorted out.

Teresa
OP | Post 14 made on Thursday November 18, 1999 at 09:37
Teresa Tunnell
Historic Forum Post
I have just received a reply from a very helpful engineer at Pace, and unfortunately it is not what we wanted to hear. He has given his permission to post his reply here:

Hi Teresa ,
May I introduce myself - I am Vic Fielding one of the senior
design engineers a Pace . I have been responsible , amongst other things ,
for the Handset / I.R. receiver side of our digital cable set top boxes .
I feel that you will not be able to use your handset to control
cable box due to a completely different system of I.R. modulation being used
by the Pace cable receiver handsets . It is akin to asking a FM radio to
receive AM signals .
The system used was chosen by our customers ( the network providers
) and is a high speed system that gives some " future proofing " of the
design . The system is designed for remote keyboard use ( Web browsing )
and to enable multiple handset to be used " simultaneously " as required
when playing games . This is because at some time in the near future the
network providers will offer these services .
"Normal" handsets use a system of modulating (switching on and off )
a carrier signal . The normal frequency of the carrier being in the range of
35kHz to 60kHz . Each data bit sent requires typically 20 to 30 pulses of
this carrier . Data bits are separated in time equivalent to 60 to 100
pulses of the carrier . Each key sends 16/18 data bits and if the key is
held down this sequence is repeated 8/10 times a sec .
The system used by Pace is based on the IRDA standard that has been
designed to enable computer peripherals to be linked without cables . ( This
is not surprising as modern digital cable set top boxes contain a powerful
micro processing systems and the Pace boxes are the first to also provide an
integrated cable modem within the box . ) The handset data is transmitted
as discrete pulses of IR - it is not carrier based . The pulse rate is
aprox. 115kHz . The handsets have identification keys / tabs that enable
the receiver to identify the handset . Each key sends a 7 byte package of
data within 600uSec ( the same the time that it taken to send only 1 or 2
bits of information with the normal system ) . This allows the data to be
sent very quickly thus freeing time for a second handset to jump in . The
receiver software also adds a time stamp to the data to enable the games
programmes to decide which handset responded first . The system and
protocols used are covered by patents held by TWO WAY TV LTD .
I hope this information has been of some use to you however in the
final analysis you will have to go back to 2 handsets - sorry !

For more information on the IRDA system visit WWW.irda.org


If you require any further clarifications do not hesitate to contact
me directly .

Best Regards

Vic

Vic Fielding

Pace Micro Technology Plc. Victoria Road Saltaire
Shipley BD18 3LF UK

E-mail: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Tel: Direct line 44(0)1274 537267 Fax:44(0)1274
538029
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended addressee please
notify the sender by return and delete the message . You must not disclose,
forward or copy this E-mail or attachments to any third party without the
prior consent of the sender.
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It's a real shame, but at least we can stop trying to get the damned thing to work.

Teresa
OP | Post 15 made on Friday November 19, 1999 at 06:29
Chris Crute
Historic Forum Post
Having literally taken delivery of my Pronto this morning and ordering Telewest digital this afternoon this has left me a little glum.

How short sighted is it of Pace to produce a set-top box that does not allow a universal remote to work with it? How difficult would it have been to have had a secondary system for the basic functions that a universal could cope with.

This is not a good day
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