The CIA said it would work. The NSA is'nt talking. The IRS will say for a fee! Go figure! Teresa, please start another looooooong thread!

Hi - after the usual fun and games of NTL not turning up when arranged I have now managed to get the box. I can confirm that it is the 4001N (as pictured on Pace's web site). The proto works fines. It actually learns the RC5 10 xxx codes.

Picture is good however I was told it would improve terrestial channel reception (1 - 4) but it doesn't, if anything it is worse!. If you view the channel's via the cable box (i.e. 101 = BBC1) then the picture is great but no teletext transmission.

The box does not appear to work properly with wide screen TV's. My philips set which is normally set to AUTO seems to insist on switching to 14:9, which depending on what cable channel you are watching distorts the picture. To this extent you have to manually change to either 16:9 or Widescreen depending on the broadcast (does not seem to matter whether auto is on or off). This is made worse when commericals come on since they seem to force the TV back to 14:9 mode. I have played with the cable box and tried PAN/SCAN, Widescreen or 4:3 letterbox. Widescreen seems to offer the best setting.

Guessing I'd say that that NTL only broadcast the 14:9 frame switch code since I have yet to see the TV switch to anything else. On the terrestial channels the TV will switch between modes either on its own or when the broadcast sets the picture size.

Does anyone know if Philips (32PW9523) have descreet codes for selecting the wide screen mode. At the moment all I can do is get the pronto to hit the key several times via a macro which "mostly" works.

In my last message I mentioned has anyone tried getting their video to change the channel numbers on the decoder. This seems unlikely since all of the cable channels start at 101, and my video can only select upto sat 99 (Panasonic HD680). Never mind.

Completely unrelated, but has anyone got a desceet code to switch off a Pinoneer 717 ?

Spike,-You must be subscibing to NTL Digital,as far as I can tell, there are two systems - NTL Digital using the 4001n box (this uses conventional IR and will work with the Pronto,- and Cable & Wireless Digital (now part of NTL) using the DITV1000 box which has an IRDA
system and will not work with the Pronto.

The two companies work independently,and have there own
coverage areas.So if your area is covered by Cable and Wireless,(like me) then bad luck! The only box available is the DITV1000, (the two systems are not compatable either)

Spike,
I originally had digital cable installed back in June by Cable&Wireless. I therefore have a DiTV1000 box (which of course doesn't work with the Pronto, yet).

I too suffered from the same problem as you with respect to aspect ratio switching. When I first had digital installed, my new Sony KV36FS70 36" Widescreen TV always selected 14:9 regardless of the transmitted format or screen display format selected. It would seem that someone at Pace cocked up the Set Top Box firmware resulting in the STB not detecting the transmitted format and then transmitting on the correct format code to the TV. This is given away by the fact that 14:9 mode is still selected for Pan&Scan and letterbox modes.

The problem was fixed sometime around late-July or August when the STB firmware was updated to replace the C&W logo with NTL and change the colour schemes of all the menus. I originally thought that maybe they had finally decided to activate interactive services, TV Internet, Digital Text and made the EPG operate at a useable speed. As if.......

It would seem that the same aspect ratio format code bug is also present in the DI4001N firmware. My advice is get on to NTL and Pace as the fault lies with them. Pace should already be aware of the problem because they have already fixed the DiTV1000 firmware. Unfortunately, you are tied into receving firmware updates via the cable network so even if Pace fix the bug you will have to wait for NTL to distribute it. Make a nuisance of yourself and maybe something will get done.

On the Pronto and DiTV1000 remote control front, I have not given up and now that I have settled in my new job I intend to continue my experiments into emulating IRDA data transmissions using the Pronto. Watch this space......

Steve

I translate IR codes as part of my job. I use the Pronto to help learn codes. I also use a digital storage scope to help learn codes. So, if anybody wants to send me a remote control for the Pace box, I may be able to help. I would only need it for a couple of days. Email me if you can send me one. Thanks.

Jared Meiners
[email protected]

It's about time this thread got off the back pages...
I've been following since January and finding it on page 6 was very disheartening!
I live in and ex Cobbled & Worthless (C&W) area, now purporting to be NTL: I called them today to say I'd like the new box. Thanks to this thread I was able to avoid be fobbed off with "we only do one box". It seems that in ex C&W areas (new NTL) you're still going to get old C&W stock, which doesn't work with the Pronto. They are testing the new boxes (in Manchester and Cosham apparently) for compatibility with their systems, and once they're OK'd they'll be ordering a couple of hundred thousand from Pace. If you live in a new or original NTL: area like Hemel Hemstead you'll get the right box. In the mean time I've asked that it be recorded against my account that I want a replacement box (for what ever that's worth).
Finally, they want to charge us £50 for a replacement box.

Hi all,
I think this may be of interest. I found it on http://diginews.cablenews.org
It's a long one, so the general point is that NTL plan to integrate STB technologies from ex C&W areas and existing NTL areas which probably means new STB's for everyone eventualy, take a look:-

05/10/2000

ntl to integrate digital technology platforms

ntl has released a press statement announcing the forthcoming integration of software and hardware platforms across both original ntl and ex-CWC franchises. Although the release talks and integration of the two platforms, the new solution is largely based on that used in ex-CWC areas, being based on Liberate software and DOCSIS based cable modems.

The company also announced that over 90% of combined ntl areas are now able to receive digital cable services, and that the first old ntl areas have now launched the first phase of interactive services. The first areas to receive these services are believed to include Teeside, Thames Valley, Northants and Hemel Hempstead according to postings in our forums and on Usenet. ntl have also apparently begun to launch full web access in ex-CWC areas, although no specific information of the roll out was given.

Peter Black, newly appointed Chief Technology Officer at ntl said: "We have selected tried and tested technologies that provide us with both a stable platform and the best prospects for growth. Our choice of DOCSIS reflects the substantial growth we foresee for high-speed Internet on the TV set. Our choice of Liberate Technologies was made only after the most exhaustive evaluation. Selecting these technologies reinforces NTL's ongoing commitment to always deliver to its customers the most appropriate solution."

While the software contained in existing ntl digitalplus boxes can be upgraded to the Liberate software already deployed by CWC, these boxes use a DVB-RC standard cable modem which is not compatible with the DOCSIS standard. The release states that "The set-top box hardware alignment is being phased in over 12 months, protecting ntl's existing investment in hardware. Networks are expected to be aligned on a similar timescale."

These details remain very sketchy, hinting that as previously rumoured, ntl may replace all set top boxes in original ntl areas with those using the DOCSIS standard. This would be a costly exercise, and the release does not make it sufficiently clear how this problem will be overcome.

In addition, the release confirms that the same cable modem service as offered in ntl areas will soon be rolled out to CWC areas, dismissing rumours of an impending service using the cable modem integrated into the set top box. However, with a DOCSIS cable modem soon to be integrated into set top boxes in all areas, this type of service could potentially be offered in the future.

Scott Falconer, Managing Director of the consumer division of the company, commented: "Rolling out new services will be so much easier now that we have a single software environment. We can speed up the delivery of e-mail, interactive services and TV based Internet to all ntl cable TV customers."

He added: "I'm particularly pleased that we have integrated our technologies. This sets us up to become the UK market leader for broadband communications."

Interestingly these changes will also mean that a common platform will be used by all digital cable set top boxes in the UK, as the Liberate/DOCSIS combination is also that deployed by rival Telewest.

Great to see some further input. Does this latest development help our cause?? I hope the new format is pronto compatible. By the way I too tried to get a replacement box( the 4001n type). I hoped to get new ntl issue but no one could help. They also wanted to charge me a new instalation fee!! One helpful person though reminded me that itis their duty to replace a box for free if its "broken" which very quickly mine was. Alas an old type arrived as no-one in the depot knew what I was on about. Worth a try at least.

Hi,

I am also having problems with pace digi box (sky digital) with a omnireomote palm 111 any offer any help?

cheers

phil

Bad news I think...

I've just had an NTL (ex-C&W) engineer round to look at screen switching (it had reverted to leaving everything on widescreen over the weekend, but miraculously fixed itself at 10pm last night!). Took the chance to ask him about the decoder boxes...

As everyone has found to date, there's no chance of ex-C&W people getting the 4001N. He's going to ask around and do his best to get hold of one (bribery rules) but doesn't hold any hope.

The really bad news is that when they consolidate, their expectation is that it'll be the C&W type boxes that win the day as these are "the more advanced".

Bit of a bugger really. Maybe I'll end up cancelling my service after all. The box has been hanging all the time anyway (apparently down to signal strength!), the screen switching chooses when it works and the quality of programming is garbage!

I have a remote that uses Pulsed codes. I didn't know that the Pronto could learn pulsed codes but it can. The learned code did start out 0100 as the first word. I was also able to change the values of the on and off times. I took measurements with my scope connected to an IR reciever. Then I soldered wires to each of the transmitters on the Pronto to take measurements directly. Here are the codes that I transmitted:

0100 000e 0001 0006 0008 0059 0008 00a7 0008 006e 0008 006d 0008 006e 0008 006d 0008 0558

The second word which is 000e gives a period of 3.38 us. So, the "on" times of 0008 give a pulse that is 27 us wide. (3.38 X 8 = 27 microseconds)

Then I modified the code to this:

0100 0009 0001 0006 0008 0059 0008 00a7 0007 006e 0006 006d 0005 006e 0004 006d 0003 0558

The Pronto also transmitted this code just fine. The last pair has an "on" time of 0003 which gives an on time of 10 us.

Then I modified the code again to this:

0100 000e 0001 0006 0008 0059 0006 00a7 0005 006e 0004 006d 0003 006e 0002 006d 0001 0558

The Pronto transmitted some of the pulses but it didn't like 0002 or 0001 and wouldn't transmit it. I even tried the code that worked before with a frequency of 0009 instead of 000e. I couldn't get the Pronto to transmit a pulse smaller than 10 us. That will not do for the Pace digital box where the pulse width is around 2 us. Plus, the pulses are only about 8 us apart.

It looks like a hopeless cause to me.

Jared Meiners

did any one resolve this yet ?

i exchanged e'mails with a NTL tech (was CW) who kindly informed me that the new cable box which does pass IR and will work with the pronto is not compatible with what was the cable and wireless network ..

Jared

Thanks for all your efforts. I was wondering whether this limit of the short pulse is a hardware limitation of the Pronto, or whether it is a software limitation?

If the One For All can control the Pace box this would seem to imply that this remote has superior hardware to the Pronto.

Hi there,

I am also in the unfortunate position of having just purchased a Pronto and gotten Digital cable installed through NTL, but being a former C&W customer. I have tried to go through the whole thread to assess whether it's at all possible to program the old cable boxes into Pronto. It sounds like some people tried various things and I am not sure if anyone has been succesful, or whether some results are still pending. Would it be possible to get a summary of the whole situation and to let me know whether this is a lost cause?
Thank You

Summary:

1) NTL digital cable box remotes work with the Pronto.
2) C&W ones don't.
3) NTL will not give ex-C&W customers the NTL boxes no matter how you ask or who you ask.
4) The convergence if/when it happens is likely to stuff those with boxes that currently work too.
5) The only 1 box solution currently available seems to be the One-For-All (which has a multitude of limitations itself).

So Samir, to conclude - you need at least 2 remotes if you want a Pronto and digital Cable in an ex-C&W region.

By way of consolation, the Pronto is still, in my opinion, the best method of controlling everything else.

It's just a shame that the short sighted, lack of customer awareness approach that was prevalent in the days of Cable & Hopeless is being continued at NTL. Hopefully someone there will be listening to these sorts of comments and will delay releasing anything "new and improved" until they know it works with universal remotes.

There are, I suppose, two other possibilities:

a) Philips add IrDA capability to the Pronto - it's possible that more electronics vendors will use this standard so may make sense. But I don't believe the new Pronto has this so don't hold your breath.

b) TiVO...I'm not 100% clear how this works, but I would have thought to be able to work with cable the TiVO boxes must surely be able to control the source signal in some way (to allow channel hopping, recording etc.)? Therefore, if a TiVO box can control the source, and the Pronto can control a TiVO box...could well be very wrong on this one though :)