Craig: If you'll notice in my message above, I've stated that many of my opinions apply to other remote manufacturers as well.


Exactly. "that remains to be seen". Until we hear differently, it is merely conjecture.


Silenced? I see Mike posting in this and other forums regularly. BlueDo is probably too busy answering emails regarding their policy with regard to HTM.

I emailed David at BlueDo a couple of days ago, asking him to change the name of the "Suvey... thread" to "Survey..." and he responded that he couldn't believe he missed it and would change it right away. Well, it isn't changed so I would tend to believe they are too busy right now to post on this site. They'll probably be back soon, I would guess.


Have AVSmarts, BlueDo, or SurfRemoteControl advised any of us that HTM has threatened them? Until I'm notified otherwise by any of those three or by URC, I'll reserve my opinion on any threats that may have taken place.

Mike and I have beem emailing back and forth for years. In fact, I talked to him on the phone on Friday. He did not mention anything about threats from HTM, although we did talk about HTM at length.


AGREED! :-)

... GregoriusMX - as I've been called a time or two, or, Gorgeous, which I've been called too many times in the Intermission forum. ;-)

You can call me Greg, hopefully! :-)


This message was edited by GregoriusM on 11/06/02 00:14.40.

Just curious... have you received your remote yet or this one of those "pay now because we have a ton of people in line" deals?

Please let me know if and when you get it.

Regards,

Al Chavez

Craig, why do you think SRC, Bluedo, AVSmarts or any other dealer should pick a fight with you over WD price? Have you ever thought none of them wanted a public battle with the wrong people? Did you ever think it might be out of respect for Daniel and this site? What do you want them to say, that they don't think WD should be allowed to sell the remote for possibly less then they do?

After speaking to WD they cannot sell to end users at that price anymore. They are however honoring past invoices if you got them in before this rucuss (sp)started. They are expecting 40 some odd unit in the next cpl of days for those who are waiting..

You guys still don't get it. The problem is that Worthington's wholesale division, which is only supposed to sell to "DEALERS" who are in the business, was selling to anyone who would contact them. It would be the same if Denon, Marantz, (insert product name here) distributors who sell to authorized dealers, were to start selling directly to the consumer. If Worthington's retail division, asihome.com was selling them at this price, it would be a different story. But they do not sell the MX-700 on line. They only sell the SL-8000, SL-9000 and the MX-500 and MX-1000.

Anthony -- Please try again -- I really don't understand your message.

Craig

Craig, you keep asking for other vendors take on WD's price. All I am asking is
a) what would they gain by complaining on here (if they did complain, then the right place would be to HTM)
b) what would RC gain from it (it would be a fight people that want cheaper price and vendors that are not allowed to sell it for less, it is not as if WD is on here)
.....

So in my opinion they have nothing to gain by posting to this thread, so why should they? You seam to think they should and I was just wondering why you think they should.

Who says a wholesaler can only sell to dealers?

I can go to at least 5 or 6 sites that readily come to mind, listed as wholesalers/distributors , and purchase 5 minutes from now.

Why can't Worthington's sell for whatever price they want, wholesale or not?

[Link: usa.denon.com]

Denon has an up front policy. You can't miss it. You can however, purchase Denon from non-authorized dealers all over the 'net. The caveat is, you don't get the warranty. That's a decision you make when you decide to purchase or not. Denon does not cut off unauthorized dealers. Not should they.

They also may have a SUGGESTED price, yet there are some large variations in price between websites. As there should be.

It's called free trade.

'nuf said for now. Someone else needs the soap box.

Anthony -- You may well be correct that "they have nothing to gain" from posting to this thread - to which I might add "but a whole lot to lose." - which is the point of my comment. SRC, BlueDo, etc are losing sales - first because of Worthington, now because of HTM. I am sorry to see that, because they are honest retailers who deserve our support. I do not believe that they should be forced to meet Worthington's prices - but I do believe that the pricing structure for the MX-700 should be changed to a more realistic level. I did order one of the Worthington remotes, and cancelled my order because a) there was no warranty and b) the unit is still overpriced. Rather than punish the dealers here(tho I suspect we will see their prices go down soon) let us hope HTM can come up with a pricing structure that realistically applies to various levels of consumers. Most of the participants on this forum do not want or need the degree of programming implicit in the $500 price - so why should we have to pay for it? After all, used MX-500's seem to be selling for under $100, and the 700 really isn't THAT much better, IMHO.

I believe anyone should be free to sell the remotes for whatever they want - even to give them away - and should not be forced into restrictive trading situations.

Craig

1) but what do they loose by not complaining on this thread? Maybe they are talking with HTM, I don't have any contact with anyone, so I don't know what is happening off this board, and I am assuming (I know never assume) that probably you don't either.

2) what is the right price for something is a different discussion. (personally I would like it if everyone gave me everything I wanted for free :-)). I can understand not being able to afford something, I can understand not wanting to pay more then a given price for something, I can also understand not seeing the value of something. If everyone agrees with you and they don't buy the remote then either HTM will lower the price or just drop it. But complaining will not do any of that.


3) comparing the price of something new to used is not fair. the 500 is over 100$ new and if you add the PC gizmo you just added an other 100$ and you have not added all the additional features of the 700.


4)I agree with you, but letting one break the rules while the others have to follow them is more of a tragedy in my eyes (and I am sure in the eyes of the rest of the people that, like me, took an opposing view to keeping the status quo)

So now the onus falls on the purchaser to TRY and determine if a dealer is authorized or not! If a dealer claims they are authorized, but are not, or gets "un-authorized" tomorrow, Denon gets their money, the Dealer gets their money, and the buyer gets the SHAFT! After all, what recourse does the buyer have? They can complain to the Government, but we all know how useless they are when it comes to protecting consumers. They can hire a lawyer and then sue the manufacturer or dealer, but the most likely outcome of this is a lot of money and frustration, or you make a lawyer very rich, at best.

If I sound bitter on this, I am. I got the shaft on an expensive camera this way. As I result, it is my policy that I will not purchase from any company that has such a policy. Hence, I have not Denon equipment.

Brent

A true wholesaler sells only to dealers. People who claim to sell at wholesale but sell to retail customers are retailers! Why is that so hard to understand? You, as an individual, cannot call up a disrtibutor such as DSI Systems, RCA's authorized wholesale distributor and buy RCA Product from them. They would tell you to buy from one of their dealers, and may even suggest one in your area. That is what a wholesaler does. By the way, I picked RCA because they do not have an internet policy, and I don't want you to get confused about the concept. Worthington is a WHOLESALER who is only authorized to sell to dealers, not to any individual. If they were selling thru their RETAIL division ASIHOME.Com then the situation would be different. Do not get the fact that someone is selling on the web, and someone is a wholesaler confused. They are two different issues!

I am new to this forum and have found it extremely helpful in my quest for the perfect remote. My hat's off to RemoteCentral - and the users who contribute which make it a valuable resource.

To make a short story long (yes, I meant to write that), I decided the MX-500 was just about what I was looking for. However, I really wanted the PC programmability. This pointed me to the MX-700. But when I saw the price of the MX-700, I was flabbergasted! 500 Dollars? Could it be the PC interface and upgraded electronics? I don't see how. I could buy/build a pretty well equipped PC for $500 or a little more. Just my 50,000 cents.

I'm sure there are some people out there saying to themselves "Well, just don't buy it then". That was my thought, too. I was throwing in the towel and conceding to the price/performance champion - the MX-500. Then I saw this thread. Even 231 Dollars might seem ridiculous for a remote to some, but it was a number I decided my credit card and I could live with. All that being said, it doesn't look like that will be possible now. Am I upset? Yes and no.

From a consumer standpoint, of course I would like to get the product I'm searching for at the cheapest possible price, but when I "put myself in the resellers' shoes", I must admit my toes were squished and I felt their pain. I understand our economy and markets are structured in such a way to protect established market sectors. A good example is the VHS/DVD sector. There's a reason why you can rent or buy a DVD at Blockbuster/Hollywood/etc. months before you can purchase that same movie on Pay-Per-View. As much as I would like to buy the remote cheaply, I can't disagree with the point being made about wholesale and retail distribution.

Finally, I would like to concur with a previous post in this thread stating basically that two pricing plans for the remote would make a lot of sense.

1) A straight out of the box price.
2) A pre-programmed price.

The product literature even states that the remotes are only available to custom installers. No offense to Bluedo.com, but they are not sending the remotes pre-programmed. I'm pretty sure they're not going to come to my house and do it either (I live in Michigan). In Bluedo.com's case (and many others) it appears they are a retailer selling a non-programmed remote supposedly only available to custom installers and collecting pre-programmed remote profits. While Worthington's policies are being legitimately scrutinized, price gauging a customer does not fair well in my book either. Afterall, they wouldn't have been able to drop the price to $350 (for a few days) if it wasn't bringing them an acceptable profit - hence the padding for pre-programming!

Harry Smith finally sold his NEW MX-700 for $199. See the threads here and on marketplace. I think that about says it all as to the true value of the 700 - at least to members of this forum.

Craig

Do you suppose "Harry Smith" will be able to offer a warranty with the sale? I think one can assume that support won't be an issue...