Perhaps I'm being overly simplistic, but...

In a capitalist economic system, the merchant may charge whatever "he" thinks the market will bear, and the consumer chooses whether to meet that price. I think the MX-700 manufacturer's suggested retail price is too high for me, therefore I have not purchased one.

Hopefully URC does monitor this thread. I will repeat what others have said here: You have two markets available to you. The first -- which is the only one you seem to address -- is the custom installer who will charge the MSR (and get it) because the price includes his labor for custom programming the remote before delivering it.

But there is a second market: Those of us who will program the remote ourselves, for whatever reason. We are willing to allow for a reasonable retail markup for the hardware, as shown by the number of people purchasing from WD for two hundred plus dollars. But we don't want to pay the additional overhead for unused custom programming.

As I mentioned at the beginning of this post, and as others have already stated -- URC is losing money.

I (and it appears many others) will not purchase the MX-700 at MSR price because I think it is too high when it won't include custom programming. In my case, I have no option to purchase from a custom installer even if I wanted to -- I live in Germany and have not found any installer here who has the MX-700!

IMHO, URC doesn't need to drop the price (their privilege). Conversely, I don't need to and will not buy their product unless they do. That's the way the market works... -Bruce

This message was edited by Bruce Burson on 12/04/02 04:00.15.

I do not wish to insult any installer. I know there are very good, capable, and dependable installers out there who will go out of their way to make sure their customers get exactly what they need in the best possible way...

That disclaimer aside, I am also certain, after talking with a few before doing the research and setting up my own home theater system, that there are at least as many who, knowing the home theater set up is complicated and clouded by misleading information, will do not what is best, but what sounds or looks best at first glance.

I have spent a lot of time on my remote. Tweaking and adjusting it get it to work just right and the way I want it. I have spent many hours doing and redoing the macros and the screens until I think I have made using my HT system as simple as possible.

And while some of the time I spent on it was part of the learning curve of component integration and automation that an experienced HT tech would already know, a lot of the time was spent doing minute tweaks to save a second here or a couple seconds there, or a button press here or there. I can see that the markup of over 100% on a MX-700 would in fact be worth it to someone who has neither the time nor the inclination to spend working on such a versitle remote control unit. But, I would have felt very taken to have bought this remote for the marked up preprogrammed price only to do all the programming myself.

I would like to add I think if this unit is intended to be sold at such a high price to make up for preprogramming (it actually says "Custom Programmed" right on the front of the unit) then they should restrict sales only to pre and custom-programmed units and not allow PlayDo or IbeaEbay retailers to sell them at all. Unless they get a list of all the users components and preprogram and fine tune the MX-700 and guarantee the unit to work flawlessly. I cannot imagine how this would be possible as in my own case I found less than 50% of my component codes available and had to learn the others from their original remotes.

In conclusion I would like to state, IMO, that URC can sell its product the way it like with whatever restrictions it chooses, but to be fair, if the remotes manufacturer's imposed retail price is set to include custom programming then URC shuld make every effort to ensure that not a single remote gets sold unprogrammed or else they should abandon their pricing restrictions and allow the distributers to sell them for what they will with the one condition that programming problems be supported by the retailer and URC be only responsible for hardware defects.

Well I bet all those that say I should be happy and bend over backwards to pay someone $500 for a MX700. Are this first people to haggle when buying a new car. To them I say don't preach to me on how I spend my money, by using the LAME excuse of product support! That is BS!
I found my MX700 local, for just a bit over $300, so WHY should I fatten some mail order vendors wallet by another $200 for the same thing? Support, I think not, I can drive to the place I bought it from if it needs to be replaced or anything. That is way better support than I will get from some vendor that visits here, and is selling them for $500. For $200 MORE than what I paid. It was even worth paying the tax on the remote, with that price differance. And yes where I bought it from has a web site, and will also sell them on-line. But I will NOT post that info, as I know damn well some of the "do gooders" here, would complain to HTM about them "hurting" the greed of others!
If you people want one, just do enough searching on the net. You WILL find them for sale. For a LOT less than $500, or at least I think $200 less IS a lot less! Others may think it's chicken feed, and want the on-line "support" that they think is worth so much. Thing is, they will never get $200 worth of support on a remote. Come on guys, it's a remote, not a custom made Rolls Royce. Just how much support do you need?

Johnla -

I think your vitriol is misdirected. It's not the on-line retailers that are controlling the price, or are greedy, otherwise they would have been selling them for $500 since day one. No, it was the custom installers who complained to HTM and caused them to shut off sales to internet retailers unless they agreed to sell the 700 for $500 (this was confirmed by an internet retailer I spoke to and who will remain nameless). Meanwhile, you can go on Ebay and find installers selling them there to make a buck but because they don't have a website, they continue to be supplied. The whole situation is ridiculous, and hopefully HTM will come to their senses and allow the market to dictate the price.

I don't buy it, that it is the custom installers that are the ones that have complained. They don't have the "do it yourself" clients to begin with. I do aggree that HTM has a lot to do with it though. But so do all the people that can sell them and get $500 for them, instead of say $300 to $350. Selling them for $150 to $200 more is something that many would rather have, and with no compitition, they are not going to do anything to hurt that either. And that goes for the online retailers as well. They are not crying when they can get $500 I'm sure, as I'm also sure they would not like to see that change if at all possible.

I disagree

1) look at the custom installer forum on this site, and you can see them complaining about customers that want cheaper prices that are competitive with web prices

2) if on-line price= B&M price where would you buy it from?

Check out http://www.musiccdsettlement.com about "Compact Disc Minimum Advertised Price Antitrust Litigation". In this case the Plaintiffs allege that the Defendants (the music companies) conspired to illegally raise the prices of prerecorded Music Products by implementing Minimum Advertised Price policies, in violation of State and Federal laws. All Defendants deny all claims of wrongdoing asserted by the Plaintiffs. However the Defendants have agreed to pay a combination of cash and non-cash consideration. Defendants' combined cash payments total $67,375,000. In addition, Distributor Defendants will provide $75,700,000 worth of prerecorded music compact discs.

Now while the defendants deny all claims of wrongdoing, does one really belive they would agree to pay this settlement if they were really innocent?

Finally, HTM had better hope I never win the big one in the California Lottery. I would love nothing more than to get a law degree and go after all the companies that practice such un-American activities.

Brent

Potentially - the original lawsuit could have cost them billions!

Oh, so 2 wrongs DO make a right. I see.

Depends on taxes, shipping and handling and customer service. Many of the local B&M stores, surprisingly, have poorer customer service than an internet retailer! YMMV.

Matthew

What you forget is that a B&M has higher fixed expenses then an internet site. While the profit is higher on the MX-700 then some oter products, we also are lucky to break even selling the same customer a basic VHS or DVD player. We need to make money to stay in business. It is similar to hospitals charging $10.00 for an asprin. It helps to make up for medicare cuts in other areas. If we don't make a profit, we are gone, and where does that leave our customers. HTM has decided to use the custom installers for the sale of MX-700 probaly because they do not want to have to suport individuals who do their own programing tying up their tech support.

Yes and as is the case in *all* business you need to offer a certain VALUE for the money. All I was saying is that some B&M stores offer no extra value for the money. In those cases I would very happily use my money to fund a better establishment (internet in this case).


I understand that but I think the MX700 seems a *lot* easier to program than the MX500 and *most* people know how to work a computer interface.... far fewer understand programming remotes.

If HTM was afraid of the customer service issues I would think they would sell the MX500 to installers only.

Just my 2cents as I think the "price fixing" HTM is doing is a scam. I understand wanting to "protect" installers but like everything in a capatalistic world you can't get something for nothing. An installer / B&M location must offer something of value (better return policy, ect) to get the business and justify the higher prices they charge.

I understand their costs can be higher so they pass it on... but atleast give me something for my extra $$$s!

Just my 2c.

Matthew

OH! So I am supposed to invest my time making sure the discounted copy I buy is NOT pirated to protect the interests of an unethical company! Not in this lifetime!

Just tried to order the MX-700 via Worthdist and got this reply:

Thank you for your order. However, until Universal Remote Control makes some marketing change decisions for 2003 we understand that they're not shipping the MX700. We'll add you to our notification list for when we get them back in. I'm sorry we can't help you at this time.

Debbie Scholl
Customer Service
800-282-8864 X104
www.worthdist.com



I guess it's on to E-Bay for me.

Yeah, I've looked in the custom installers forum. And they have a attitude problem, they want list price for everything, on top of their labor charges. And I don't feel one bit sorry for them either! They want to sell champaign to the beer crowd. And if they wish to sell to the beer crowd, they best start selling at beer prices. But they are selling more than just parts, they are trying to sell a installed system. They can work the prices to make it look good, and make it back on another part of the install the are selling the "guy" that wants a price match. But I still in no way feel sorry at all for them, after reading how some only sell "protected" brands, no matter if they are the best or not. Just so they don't have to price match. If it bothers them that much, they should find another line of work, as sooner or later competition from another installer will do it for lower prices anyway. And then they will have that to bitch about.

And as I mentioned before, I did buy one from a local source. That also does internet sales. But I refuse to say who and where they are, as I'm 99% sure they would get contacted about it, in a negative way. But in my case, it was B&M which also happens to sell on line. And they still made a profit off me for selling it way less than $500. Ebay is not the only place to buy them for less than list price. You just need to look.

This message was edited by Johnla on 12/09/02 20:54.43.