never mind

This message was edited by juliejacobson on 04/05/05 04:28 ET.

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I am not going to attack anyone else's writing styles as mine is a bit pedantic and I cannot spell for the life of me. But 2nd Rick, I think you are being quite harsh. This is an off the cuff board and not a published paper. We are all guilty to some degree of using cliches or making trite statements. If I my posts are full of misspellings should they be graded down? The point is the point not how well the phrase was turned.

I would like to see how others respond to what Rich has written with specific comments. Now its back to the salt mines.

Alan

Licensed rather than certified, and not by a private organization, but by the applicable state agency.

And yet, you can still get a lousy do on any given day, at any given salon/barbershop.

Ultimately, I think that most of us would like to see a certification of some sort that may someday be recognized by builders, tradesmen, and possibly the general public.

I think it's a shame that the average person is more concerned that their used car is "certified" than the guy who is drilling holes through the structure of their home.

We all know that there are plenty of installers getting work that shouldn't be allowed to pick up tools. All the while there are plenty of competent contractors that are struggling to manage their businesses while attempting to remain competitive with these hacks and pay for the training and certification.

That is what I would like to see CEDIA spending it's energy promoting the benefits of the certification process OUTSIDE our industry.

How is that?

Rather that the industry association allow entry to any firm in the business, and then demand that they take a certifation test after the fact?

Sort of a "please join us for the lowly sum of (any dollar amount), and then "oh by the way, we want you to pay more to remain a member".

That, to me, smacks more of "elitist" than being up front about the certification requirement.

But what the heck. I'm not long to be a member, since I most definitely will not be joining the "certified". Shoot, wife tells me I'm certified anyway....well certifiable anyhow....lol

Education is a good thing; all of us should encourage each other to learn more. That is really the purpose of the remote central & AVS forums etc..The mutual exchange of knowledge to improve others lives and livelihoods

That being said, there is already too much pressure being put on contractors to satisfy a plethora of already in place government requirements. I for one, am not one to look forward to the day when there is an officer waiting at the entrance of every construction site ensuring all of your papers are in order, nor am I looking forward to regularly being pulled over for a spot checks simply because I have a contractors sign on my truck.

Don’t laugh, because that is where this country is going to end up if we continue to allow this incremental need a license for everything so we can feel safe mentality. Further, one day soon we will all need to belong to a union, or we wont even be allowed to get a license. Get a clue everybody, Get a certificate will very quickly equate to pay union dues and other additional fees so you can get an additional license. Which equates with more revenue for the government, which is really the whole thing in a nutshell, MONEY, MONEY, MONEY.

A freedom lost is never easily regained. How many millions of Americans have died, and are still dieing to protect the freedoms we don’t even seem to understand let alone appreciate.


Self explanatory Example #1- a very nice highly trusted man from the government who for years has been the champion of reducing crime in America proposes, let us read your mail once and awhile and we will reduce the crime rate by 50 percent, sounds like a fair deal, I have nothing to hide anyway right? (Homeland in-security) But if you are smart or if you have lived in a communist controlled country you will know exactly why this is a very bad thing.


Self explanatory example #2- a very nice group of people who for years have brought knowledge and technology into a forum for the betterment of all, comes up with the bright idea that those that have not shared in their wisdom and / or paid their dues on time might actually be a legitimate danger to the public and as such should be required to take and pass certain tests as mandated by the very nice group of people. If anyone cannot pass or refuses to take the tests or pay their dues they will be removed so that legitimate members can properly do the work for them. (national socialist German workers party) chaired by Adolph Hitler


Absolute power!

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I think everyone should download CEDIA's annual report and look on page 27 to see how much money is spent on education and certification. As opposed to the expo and administration.

[Link: cedia.net]

I actually voted for Bush.

I have nothing per say against Cedia which is really a bowl full of talented individuals. What bothers me is this totalitarian mentality that is creeping into the picture.
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This already has become a political issue whether anyone likes it or not, Further there are already a ton of standards as there is more than 1.5 million pages of Federal law (excluding state laws) that we are all supposed to all be familiar with in this particular country a section of which governs what we are or are not supposed to be doing. As it stands now you already have to have either an electrical or at least and 06 low voltage license in the state of Washington to pull wire.


Lets see a show of hands, how many of you has actually read the national electrical code?


With all due respect, in addition to the laws already in place, there are already boxcar loads of standards, further how we implement those standards is still (thank god), up to the custom installer, If you would prefer this to be a cookie cutter industry, perhaps you should move across the border.


A lot of people became sic because of rat tainted food at fast food restaurants a few years back, it was not because there was not any regulations in place to govern rat poo, but rather a lack of enforcement of the laws that had already been in place for a very long time


Retaining your freedoms often requires harsh words and harsh observations lest we for get how quickly things can deteriorate.



I have a friend who migrated here from France several years ago, he moved here because there is a tax on every single window in your house, a tax on how many wheels your bike has and an so forth, it did not start out that way but the people let happen in trade for safety and comfort (slow usurpations of our freedoms).


Space Aliens are a cosmically impractical ideology; time travel is a more logical assumption.

Hopefully no one here will hold that particular faux pas against you......



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Pretty much agree with that. Lots of very, very talented individuals for sure. But some have let it go to their heads.




I did, I did. Was a rather boring read though. Didn't half understand what i was reading....lol

I would love to have full financials on CEDIA. I don't see from the graph where brand awareness and promotion are shown. Could it be the 4.48% for PR?

They definately make money on education/training seminars - they are entitled though.

How many ads have we seen in the monthly periodicals titled " Which installer should we trust?"

Oh damn, that wasn't CEDIA, it was someone else. They should have similar 2 page adds in every AV rag with email addresses to find members in the consumers local area.

THATS THEIR JOB!!!! - To promote consumer awareness! I've been asking everyone, ever heard of CEDIA? Haven't found a consumer yet. Hopefully, they keep a finger on the pulse of this thread. This is their target audience of installers and seems that we, as a group, aren't impressed. I hope it changes before renewal time.

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As far as the international part, US is by far the biggest and most mature CI mmarket in the World... I truly doubt that they have any significant progress anywhere else beyond what they have here.

I appreciate the AVAD tie-in for the regional trainings, but I hope that this is not just a prelude to a CEDIA/D2B tie that leaves out the companies that choose not to enroll in the AVAD D2B program.

So please Rich, and others monitoring this thread, please make sure that a fair share of efforts are spent in marketing the industry to builders/architects/designers/etc. outside of the D2B thing to keep the "top of mind awareness" as high as possible for the members that have literally paid our dues.