I agree with you. I guess it really comes back to government oversight and accredidation.

I'm headed out of town on vacation, but will be very interested to see where this thread has gone by the time I get back.

It's a terrible catch 22, without the tremendous growth Cedia has had we wouldn't have as big a show every year. But along with growth comes an inbalance in what a "member" company is. Having the Cedia logo on our web site doesn't mean much when some small upstart down the road has it too. So someone with an eye for making money comes up with "Cedia Certification". Now we have an option, be a member, or pay more money and take a few tests to prove we know how to read, and become certified, thats got to be better than the guy down the road, untill he spends a few bucks and takes the tests too. But now, in an effort to take even more of our hard earned money, you HAVE to take the tests. From all the comments I have heard, the level 1 and 2 are pretty simple, so once again, being Cedia Certified obviously doesn't mean anything other than you know how to write a cheque. I agree with a mix of the above comments, there are much better ways to do this.
Much like the country clubs out there, they need to have a "social membership" for companies that want to have access to the show and courses. For a full membership, they used to require you to be in business for a few years and have references, I think this plus submission of 5 projects showing different disciplines of this industry should get you in. After that, companies should be able to earn levels based on experience, manufacture trainings( advanced Lutron programming, AMX or Crestron and others) .

This is a passionate thread, indeed. I almost never respond to forum threads because the dialog is typically uninformed. Now I feel compelled to make a few points to those who will listen.

CEDIA University and the CEDIA Certification program exist to elevate the quality of training and the relevance of certification throughout our industry. They are not huge money makers. In fact, the revenues from classes and certification often cover expenses, but not always. So why does CEDIA even bother? Because some of us really care and we know that it is extremely important to our future.

I'm between CEDIA gigs right now, as a matter of fact. Over the weekend, eight Subject Matter Experts met at CEDIA headquarters in Indianapolis to continue our two year journey to develop the Home Theater Designer certification exam. This exam will be the most comprehensive, exhaustively researched, balls-to-the-wall, spot-on relevant certification exam in CEDIA's history. You can imagine how expensive it is for CEDIA to produce an exam of this quality and I'm sure you can do some math to realize that it would take CEDIA many years to recoup the expense. So, why do we bother?

I am proud to work with this distinguished group of experts, all of whom are volunteers (that means no pay). We stayed in a dingy motel and ate bad donuts, but we worked our asses off for three days over a weekend. This was our eighth weekend meeting developing this exam, not to mention the countless hours of research and design work we've done on our own time. The HTD certification exam is in two parts: 150 multiple-choice questions followed by a serious practical exam that would challenge even the Russ Herschelman's of the world. When I read this thread about CEDIA's new membership policy, I had to wonder why I spend so much of my time working to the highest levels I can muster on CEDIA's certification programs like the new HTD. Well, there are plenty of reasons.

Except for referrals and testimonials, there is essentially no way for a consumer, manufacturer, architect, builder or consultant to guage the comentence of a designer or installer except noting which certifications a companies employees hold. In this regard, CEDIA has an excellent foothold. Those who think CEDIA certifications are not relevant should consider the fact that well over half the people who take CEDIA's Installer Level II exam do not pass. They're good exams and meant to be tough, because what we do in this business is not trivial or easy. These exams are regularly updated by SME volunteer committees so that the questions really do qualify those who are competent professionals. Each exam is scrutinized by an outside, professional exam development company for clarity, fairness and accuracy. This costs us a lot of dough, but we do it because we feel it is crucial to maintaining education and certification to the highest standards--which is and always has been CEDIA's mission.

From this thread, it seems that we might be failing in this regard. How can we do a better job? Please tell me, I want to know. The quality of CEDIA is directly tied to the qulaity and hard work of its members. It is a volunteer organization and, guess what, it's the volunteers who call the shots, not the professional staff headquartered in Indianapolis. For those of you who think the CEDIA staff is rolling in profits, fantasizing about how to torture their members with new certification requirements, think again. The members make these decisions.

CEDIA is in the midst of change, and I think it is change for the good. Our President, Ray Lepper (a volunteer) calls it "Raising the Bar." What that really means is that we can't permit our unique organization, the ONLY credible organization dedicated to residential entertainment and system integration, to dilute itself with inexperienced, trunk-slamming idiots who can't or won't take the time to educate themselves to truly learn their trade. They must either rise to the professional level of their peers, or go work for the big box custom installation hacks. Can you think of a better way to weed out these under achievers than by industry recognition? Do you really want the government to do this for you? Scary, but this is what might happen if we don't respond quickly. Our brothers in other trades are lobbying very heavily in Washington and at State capitals to blow us right out of residential work. CEDIA is responding.

CEDIA University and CEDIA Certification are being re-built to conform with national and international standards for labor regulations and licensure. To conform, we must train and certify with validity and repeatablility. And let me tell you from the trenches, CEDIA is totally on top of this situation.

Since the announcement was made about Full Membership requiring at least one certified employee, CEDIA's offices in Indy have been deluged with calls from companies looking for places to take their exams. It seems that most of the membership welcomes this initiative. Many, to our surprise, are looking for the most advanced certification they can get; which is the CEDIA Certified Designer. To accommodate, we are increasing our accessibility to exam locations, developing on-line training programs, and eventually will have on-line certification exams under proctored conditions at local colleges and qualified training centers. We are doing everything we possibly can to reduce the cost of training and certification so that our memebers have unfettered access. To maintain quality, consistency and professionalism in all of our training efforts, we have started development of a "train-the-trainer" program so that CEDIA educators are pre-qualified and professionally tutored to teach in their field of expertise.

OK, so maybe this is why I don't post to forums very often! I'm sorry for taking so much of your time here, but I care. If you want to see improvements in how CEDIA is handling certification, talk to me. I'm at the CEDIA Management Conference in San Antonio writing this from my hotel room. If you see me at the conference, please pull me aside and tell me what you think. We can always use more help and welcome any discussion.

Sincerely,
Rich Green
CEDIA Certification Council Chairman
CEDIA Board of Directors

Cedia certification has its value and place, However we need to keep in mind that states control the license departments and will NEVER allow CEDIA certification to replace this.

But think about it...this would be an elitist approach that would disallow newcomers to participate in the benefits of the industry association.

Without knowing the cost structure for certification, I do agree with you that it would make sense to include the certification fees (not training fees) in the membership dues, except for any real costs of taking the test at a proctered location.

Actually, I'm on CEDIA's legislative committee, and CEDIA also is not against government licensing. Trouble is, they'd rather do it on their own terms, not the IBEW's, who have all the influence. These types of programs are one step in getting CEDIA recognized by legislators as the organization that can certify and vouch for low-voltage installers.

Not saying I agree with the approach of this particular initiative, but if we don't become self-regulated, then the IBEW-funded legislators will do it for us.

But then, no one dies when a hair cut is crooked, and THEY have to be certified!!

However, unsterile hair cutting tools do lead to other public health issues, although some would argue that lice would enhance my appearance.

Alan

well this has been quite a read. I've had a sour taste in my mouth for CEDIA right from the start. Even in the beginning CEDIA marketing people were out there saying that if your installer wasn't a CEDIA member then don't hire them. period. I found that a bit insulting. But I do believe most of the people at CEDIA have very good intentions and I also believe we do need a legislative voice out there. So start telling me what you've done for me lately and I'll start sending in my dues. And would you please start working with manufactures to figure out a way to handle the obnoxious amount of styrofoam packing we throw out? Where were you when Xantech tried to push some standards for IR codes? That's the type of thing I'd like to see more of.

I may do some certification at some point but for me it's really not needed. ALL of my work is from referals so the comment of "how do you know the guy you hired is any good?" is rather irrelevant for me. Most of the CEDIA classes were really beginner stuff and I think that's on purpose. I got WAY WAY WAY more use out of my
SYN-AUD-CON seminars than I did any CEDIA programs and they are completely geared towards commercial.

As opposed to the "welcome one and all" approach that has been the norm for the past 6-7 years??

BTW, I hate when people say "think about it".
The point is worth consideration, and it is condescending to presume that no thought was put into it.

There are a lot of people on this forum that have a great deal of interest in building and promoting the industry.
But none of us have journalism degrees.

Rich that is an interesting post. I am in the midst of some intense and time critical programming ( and posting here is like a coffee break ) and I think you serious and thoughtful points demand a similiar thoughtful response. It may take a few days for me to gather all of my thoughts and mull over some of your points but perhaps a dialogue would benefit all of us; those that feel trod upon and those of you who volunteer your time and determine the course work. I may need to first write in Word, spell check and then copy the post here because even I can see about 7 errors but I am too tired to seek out the proper spelling

Alan

There's a duet with you and me in there somewhere. I'll work on the lyrics.

Certification for them originated so no one's throat got slit with a straight blade and other health issues. I don't believe any barbershop does that anymore yet shaving with a blade is still part of the test. Talk about being behind the times.

As for Cedia, self regulation is a good thing. For me, the biggest insult is the cost of the Level I exam. There should be some type of CLEP type test or 30 minute phone interview or some other means. Losing a day of work plus travel to see if I know the difference between 16/4 and coax is a bit much. I would much rather be permitted to go take the LEvel II and if I fail, bill me each time I take it.

I was going to take the Level I last November in NY only to realize with NYC traffic it would be a 6-8 hour drive to cover the 190 miles, so I cancelled.

On the lines of certification, I inquired to a few of the manufacturers that I deal with about being certified to sell/install their products they seemed uninterested. They only want people to move their gear.

Also,
Just to prove a point, I went to Monster and typed in "Magnolia Home Theater"...

There are 126 job openings recruiting the people you have trained...
Don't believe it?? check the quote....
"CEDIA, ICIA, NICET Certifications preferred"
or the link:
[Link: jobsearch.monster.com]

This message was edited by 2nd rick on 04/04/05 22:18 ET.

It is true. Today, by far the biggest value of a CEDIA certification or HTI+ certification (CompTIA) or ICIA and NICET certification is for employment purposes. For installers, there's no value in certification per se--other than enhanced job opportunites--unless the employer pays more money for passing the test.

The real value is in the training and experience apparently required to pass an exam. Unfortunately, it's tough to judge competency any other way than a stupid test.

Indeed, it will be a tough challenge for CEDIA to make certification worthwhile for other things than job opportunities.