I can't fathom how yet another thread has devolved into politics, albeit a more civilized tone this time. Still, why? This was about C4, and at best we could/should all be pontificating about a company that possibly had buyout as their end game from day one, or how they almost killed AMX with PHAST (later Panja) for those of us old enough to remember that debacle. Maybe stock manipulation to make them seem more desirable? Or we could, as some have, questioned the state of our industry....
But no, its all back to Red/Blue policies, economic meltdown, and even a little good ole name calling..
W(hy)TF can't we stay on topic?????

Because solving our country‘s problems is apparently easier than understanding corporate decisions or solving HDMI sync issues. It sharpens our problem-solving skills

You just noticed this now? Not on the second (2nd!) post?

Must be the fastest devolution in history!

Actually, France's healthcare costs is around 240 Billion a year. That's about 4000 per person. OTOH, US healthcare costs is about 10,500 a person. So France is only 40% of our costs. Thanks for playing our game.

Im pretty F!uck!ng pissed my thread turned into politics. I respect Mac immensely, but, it wasnt right that he nosedived this thread on the first reply. I SINCERELY wanted to talk about this openly.

This has more todo with the state of our industry and our futures. What I was getting at in my post was, yes, it seemed C4 was built on a house of cards. However, they have more internal data into the health of our industry then any one of us do. And that is what made the purchase article so upsetting to read.

Ive seen the writing on the wall and im actively trying to steer my ship out of the path of the iceberg. There are still plenty of people that haven't woken up to the fact that our industry is eroding faster then I think we ever believed could happen. The wakeupcall should have been Crestron leaving the residential field.

What I personally think is happening- (cross post from IP)
Who knows what else is going on but you know Snap has enough products in the wild to have a pretty healthy data mine to sell to other companies. The second snap purchases C4 they get millions more of consumer data. They very well, and may, already have plans to bring a DIY product to the masses.

I got to extensively talk to Hayman a few years ago at dinner shortly after he took the position. Lets just say I don't have the utmost confidence that he has our (CI's) best intentions at heart.

We also have to realize C4 bought NEEO, which was a consumer centered remote. Pair a redesign, with a CA1 (or EA1) and you have a pretty powerful DIY solution. It is very clear SNAP now may, if its not already become the most powerful company in our industry. Which also means they have deep pockets. After snap's acquisition of C4 stock in cash theres no telling how much money they actually have and how deep their pockets run.

If anyone can bring a DIY solution to market and market it properly, its snap. The money is in the data, they will happily sell it at a loss and recoup on the sale of data.

Just my speculation of course, but I dont have the warm and fuzzies going forward.

Just to correct one point, Crestron didn’t leave the residential market.

That sort of assumes that Snap didn't go way into hock to buy C4 just like C4 went into hock buying all of their toys? I dunno anything about their finances and maybe they have Google style pockets? For that matter, they also may be looking to attract an even bigger fish?

I was saying many years ago that C4 was doing the usual thing of trying to stay ahead of the headman and it might not work. No one much paid attention to me back then. They took a lot of private capital (maybe as much as $100M?) Then just when they started making a wee bit of profit, though still so little that it would have taken another decade to just pay back the original investment without interest even if they spent it all on that, they went public and started spending the money of a whole other group of people.

The never making money thing works in Silicon Valley pretty often. But there there's always that lure that you have a chunk of the next Facebook or Google. It's not quite the same in home automation. That's a considerably more prosaic enterprise. Of course, back a while, home automation was the next big thing coming, so a lot of people with bucks probably viewed them a bit differently.

And it sort of has been a next big thing, just for a group of companies who have enough cash to give it away in the interests of getting another huge data collection stream and ad delivery system.

Not that I'm cynical about it or anything...

Most would say the Snap overpaid for C4. The people really in charge over at Snap are not stupid they have a plan to recoup their investment and I can guarantee that it will not be good for us. Control4 realized they had reached as much saturation as they figured they could and punted to Snap.

In my opinion you will see changes that aim to move more boxes. And not just a few more. Many multiples more. We will bitch but they dont care. They are a business and their ONLY goal is to make money. They will not do that by keeping C4 as a dealer centric product line.

I'm doing Crestron left and right these days and feel comfortable it is the best control system for higher end projects by far. I have plenty of large projects to compare from.

The $700B number is what the French government paid to cover the uninsured.

How much do the insurance companies charge us to insure, then deny coverage that we pay for? I would bet that the actual cost would be very similar, if care givers didn't need to overcharge and play the insurance company games. There's also the added cost when a drug company has a patent and won't allow generics. I narfed my finger with a router bit and a Dr was brought in to consult- she snipped off a small piece of skin and the bill showed "$585- Outpatient surgery". She was there for about 30 seconds.

Actually, the masses THINK that Wally World is cheaper. Little do they know, that many times, WW is more expensive.

Buying into the advertising? Don't care? Just don't bother comparison shopping?

There it is!

Isn't it funny that the president is limited to two terms, but the rest of the "thieves" can stay as long as they like?

What have they fixed, or are fixing?

1. Well, they are fixing to put back into policy, the automatic pay raises.

2. They fixed healthcare so well that people paid a fine because they couldn't afford the new healthcare.

Something they fixed that most people don't know about: They can take a salary from all the campaign funds, while they are running. Imagine getting paid a fat salary, with unimaginable perks, and getting paid again, because you are running to keep your job where you get things the "people" will never get.


I've said it before, and I'll say it again. VOTE! Vote against the incumbent all the time. The only way to end this cycle is to end the lifetime political welfare system.

ONE term and home you go. No lifetime pay, medical, or perks.

Politicians be just looters faking y’all into thinking they be yo friend.

Not sure why you think that snap, after paying a ton for C4, would suddenly have a bunch of cash that they didn’t have before. They likely have debt they never had before.

Our job never changes. Keep on the lookout for products that will meet the needs of our clients. Keep installing those products that clients do not, will not, or cannot install themselves. Rinse and repeat.

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Spot on, Tom.

Yes, but the market that will appreciate our services is shrinking. In the 1980’s there was a growing market for custom building and supporting personal computers. There were a number of small businesses doing this. At this point it is mostly DIY. While there is a small, but vibrant market for the hardware, not so much for mom and pop builders and installers. I’m not saying that our market will disappear, only that we’ll need to dig a bit harder for customers — especially for the smaller projects.