Do you think it would be worthwhile for me to do a few videos to show you guys how not to suck so much time with hdmi?

Mac, I think he means a screen that is solid pink.


I wondered that, too. Good answer.


I've never seen a connector break off. "No stress"? That's hard to believe.


This tells me that Mac doesn't allow this kind of situation. From what I've seen of photos he has provided, he's in control of the mounting situation. Few of us are.


Bingo.


This is really pretty stupid. First, there's a HUGE base of cables connected per 568; second, everyone who uses CAT cable is used to connecting that way; third, if wire length has anything to do with the connection layout choice, that choice won't give consistent results because nothing about the pair twist spec says which colors should get which amount of twist. It only says* that crosstalk should be minimized and the manufacturers do that by using different twist rates, choosing which colors get which amount of twist.


Traces? You mean PC board traces? How is this addressed OTHER than internally?


And this shows part of the problem with HDMI: when it doesn't work, all the possible causes are present with every failure. Does it maybe have a bad crimp connection? Lop off the one you've got an make a new one, which is now a new place that might be bad in exactly the same way.


Experience says you were lucky.





*no, I have not read the spec. I'm sort of in the position of a 12th century Catholic trying to talk about Christianity: I've heard talk from those who can read the information, and all I can do is extrapolate from that.

I think a factor why we may all be viewing this subject a little differently is because of Quantity, I think my perspective is scewed because I only do a few projects a year, When your only doing a dozen higher end projects a year the opportunity for failure is much less than if your doing 100 installs a year.

That being said my experience is like Mac's very few issues over the years and when there has been an issue it has been a concrete issue, ( a bad cable, balun, receiver etc)

I read the frustration that many others share and the long complicated troubleshooting processes used, I take notes and do my very best to avoid situations that look similar to where others have had issues

I don't think it was a good question/answer. I know some of us here like to focus on spelling and grammar but i think a little bit of effort needs to be directed at reading and comprehension.

In my post i didn't just say "manufactured cables" i said...



I mentioned manufactured cables...



Extenders...



My multiple choice response covers every way i know to get wired HDMI from source to display. I don't think that anyone in this industry should be able to read that sentence and wonder what i meant by "manufactured cables". But...this might explain why so many have issues with such a simple and stable technology like HDMI.

I had some extra time this morning so i put together the first episode of HDMI school for you guys. This is the first tutorial video i have ever done so please bear with me. I didn't have time for a custom intro graphic so i sketched something out. Hopefully each video gets a little better until at some point they closely resemble a professional video course. I think these will be a great asset that is clearly needed by so many.

Hopefully everyone can see this embedded vimeo video. If not click this link [Link: vimeo.com] to watch at vimeo.com

HDMI 101 from guijaboard on Vimeo.

Equally, attention needs to be paid to clear writing.


Yes, you did. But the second item in a list should not make the reader go "oh, I see what he's talking about." Each term should stand on its own.

This is real: There's a mid-80s product labeled "Video Switcher." Its instructions might read "To use this video switcher, start by connecting your sources and displays to the F connectors on the back of the unit."

See, it's NOT a video switcher, it's an RF switcher, but the initial term was not complete and definitive all on its own. You read Video Switcher, but then later find it's NOT a video switcher.

If you had even listed the same components, but put them as

it would have been more clear. I still think they should have been called "HDMI cables."


We simply don't call them that, so when you do, you raise a question and progress grinds to a halt. This is similar to the quotation marks in the title at [Link: remotecentral.com]. Julie was just quoting someone else, but even there, why did someone else use the quotation marks?


Even if you read a rabid proponent of HDMI like Jeff Boccaccio, you will find references to possible and likely problems with HDMI. He has tested many HDMI products and found them lacking... from there, how can it EVER be stated that your luck with HDMI should be typical?

If you were a librarian or a fire fighter i could see how this would be confusing. If you are an audio video technician you should understand that label with no issue. If you are an audio video technician and that statement does confuse you...i think its safe to say that you will also have issues with basic HDMI wiring and possibly tying your shoes.

A more confusing term in that example is the use of the word "switcher". Does it really switch signals? Or does it actually route signals? Or are the routed signals switched? Or possibly the switched signals routed?


I think your problem is that you consider my seasoned exceptional expertise to be "Luck". I used quotation marks on either side of the word luck in that last sentence to make the reader of this paragraph aware that i was quoting the words that you typed in your paragraph earlier when you were responding to my earlier comment in this thread. Hopefully i included enough information about my use of the word Luck and the quotation marks on either side of it.

The pink didn't show up immediately, it took time and it was fine until the pink reared its ugly head. No logo, just a solid pink screen with a black border. Replacing the cables took care of the problem.

I wrote 'almost no stress'- it took so little I was amazed. The metal shell basically fell off and the plastic at the center wasn't able to handle the bending force, so that broke, too. It was a Monster, too. What a shock. No, really.

I avoid stressing cables when I know they won't survive it, so I bundle them in the position they need at the rear panel and if necessary, I use something to maintain that position, almost like a cable comb. If the piece of equipment is moved, the cables go with it without moving between the jacks and the point where they diverge. If the shelf isn't deep enough, I make sure to prevent lifting the HDMI cable (or pressing downward) because that direction is where it's most fragile.

I didn't know it didn't use 568 until I had it for too long to return it (thanks, ADI!). WRT traces, yes, circuit board traces and they can easily make them as long as needed by using plated feed-throughs and continuing the circuit on a double-sided board. I was told the colors are in adjacent pairs because the path length is supposed to be equal and I told them they were doing it in a way that's ridiculous. I had re-terminated both ends and since the source end is next to a network switch that was connected to the router, I did a speed test from the TV end and it came through without any problem.

I still have the Spectrum extender- wanna try it? I don't. Once I had success with the one from SnapAV, I moved on to the rest of the project and as I wrote, I have had zero problems with it since that time. Lucky? No, I know how to terminate cables. If one piece doesn't work and the other one does, it's defective or badly designed. In addition, the Snap piece only uses one Cat5e, where the other used two. Not impressed with Spectrum.

I'm using my experience over the years since HDMI became a thorn in our sides and to me, reliable is more important than new, "better, best, improved, High Speed", etc. I don't give a rat's patoot what a marketing department is telling me, I want results that won't force me to waste time in troubleshooting a problem that shouldn't have occurred in the first place.

Remember the HDMI cables that could be field-terminated, sold by Liberty? I do and that's the reason I asked. If we had been discussing anything with an RJ45, RCA, BNC or any other type of termination that we use on a regular basis, I think you may have included something like "...vs terminated on-site".

Have you used fiber HDMI yet?

And the ironic part is that Spectrum is Boccaccio's company.

On that job it was a 50 ft Binary cable from an Onkyo AVR to a Sharp TV.

I have a grave yard of HDMI extenders in my office. Every single one of them have been units that worked great while I was on site, but then f&*ck up later, video drops out, require reboots etc, etc. A unit will work fine on one job site, so I make it my go-to and then it fails on another site.

I've tried Binary, Atlona, Hydraconnect, probably others I can't remember.

I finally started running conduit whenever humanly possible.

I had a remodel job a couple years ago, with three local systems, all of which had Key Digital HDMI matrix switches. I pulled conduit to all the TVs. I pulled moderately price Key Digital HDMI cables to all of the TV's. The longest run was about 75 ft. All the TV's worked while I was there, then they all started screwing up. Ended up pulling all new higher end Ethereal HDMI cables to every TV and they all worked from then on.

I have several budget jobs with Amazon 50 ft HDMI $40 cables that still work fine.

I think I might need some lasers.

Mac,
If you have a local system in a home, with an AVR, and only existing Cat5e to work with, and you have a 50-75 ft run between the AVR and TV, what is your go-to solution?

And on that last post, finally, I notice the name Ethereal.

In keeping with Mac's proofreading thoroughness, I'm not saying they weren't mentioned before this. I'm just saying this is the first time I noticed it.

I'm not qualified to speak for Mac, but for me, it would be a Leaf HDBT extender. Most of the projects I do are HDBT distribution, and very rarely do I use PTP products. I have probably deployed somewhere in the neighborhood of two dozen Leaf PTP kits, never had an issue yet.