BIG PICTURE!

We are growing by HUGE leaps! HUGE!

WHY

BIG PICTURE!

Pass on the small, aim for the large, take the middle in the interm.

Crutchfield will not sell the higher end stuff anymore than BB, CC etc. If you are tying to compete with them then Yea! I can see why door are closing.

A business plan is key!

Dave

So how many jobs will it take for you guys lose too many jobs to the 2 old men, or electricians, or the Crutchfield certified guys?

I know a CEPRO top 10 dealer who is letting go 5 of his 10 installers this week. You can keep your head in the sand if you want, but for me I won't let that happen. I do something about it. I DON'T SELL ZON period!

Do you guys want to talk to the CEO of one of the contracted companies? It would be a real eye opener for you.

Also don't flatter yourself, many of the guys that have closed doors have been some of the top people in CEDIA so again go ahead do what you need to do.

I hope you don't have the same fate as many of our CEDIA brothers. If you can't see the problem then there is nothing I can do to help you.

Good luck, have a good Expo!

We will take the 5 as we have plenty of work for qualitified installers. (Business plan)

Cresnet. I've worked for crappy dealers and I've been in this business now 9 years. I know a business plan and sales staff when I see one. I'm 35, been in a war, seen over 15 countries before I was 24. I was running CATV via an attic when I was 13 in my parents house. Climbing power poles with a ladder to remove filters to add HBO, Show, etc at 15, 16 at my and friends homes etc..

Do I really care about BB. NO!

I could care less about Zon. Could be a nice product for some and IF a customer is needed something with a very small budget he/she could play with that fine but not with company man hours. Side work!

I pitched a fit awhile back because we installed a Niles ZR system. Aim high!

Dave

Cool, I have 50 more where that came from where do you want them sent to? What market are you in I will send you some info. How many can you take as the 5 will need work starting this Friday, but I have dozens more from the last few weeks who have not caught on somewhere yet.

Do you need programmers also?

To answer the question WE INSTALL WHAT WE SELL!

I have a few pissed customers right now. One who bought 2 demo 37" lcd's from tweeter. they wouldnt install because of the purchase price. 3600 each. If they want to whore out hardware then by all means come install it too.

Yes! Qualified! Programmers! Yep!

50? Are they qualified? Qualified is a loose term. Lead installers! And helpers for the lead installers!

Ask QQQ about business plans. QQQ is a rare talanted designer! Smart and knows the ropes.


Dave

I'm sure many of you have seen my posts along the same lines as CresNut's...

I hate the proliferation of the unqualified into my business... kind of like a dog who pissed on a fire hydrant only to have 70 other dogs come and piss all over it too. I have bitched, pissed and moaned ad infinitum about AVAD, their insidious D2b program, electricians who don't know shit and pretend they do (apologies to guys like Larry), Companies like Bose and Sonance selling directly to builders... even our beloved CEDIA for setting up an hour and a half class at IBEW to tell electricians all they need to know about "them home theeters" .

This bitching has led a lot of you to agree and others (especially QQQ) to tell me to wake up and watch my business instead. Being a businessman first who combined a love of AV into a job over 20 years ago... I have seen a lot of evolution. The business is so different now, god only knows (well god and maybe Wesley Mullings) where it will be 20 years from now.

Honestly, most of the posts here are simply to keep an open eye and mind on whats happening. Our voices really do lead to changes... look at CEDIA fighting these ridiculous legislations that could have us all either gone or part of an electrical union. Ultimately though, David & QQQ & Impaqt are right... form your own business plan... be willing to modify it daily and be willing to get the hell out when it finally does get overrun. For the here and now though... market the client you want to market to and do every job to the best of your abilities... let your body of work speak for itself.

The basic problem is that we are all after the same high end client and more and more of these are being approached by people who would never have approached them two years ago. Since these folks are either getting the desperate trouser drop in price or are getting hosed by picking the wrong contractor...it is sending waves through the industry. While I keep a watch on things, my philosophy is that you do your part by not supporting Zon. Many a middle class American will be playing with his Crutchfield purchased Zon system installed by Tom, Dick & Harrys AV as of yesterday install crew... so be it.

Others will be playing with the wonderfully automated... individually amplified multi zone system that you set up. You'll do a killer job at it and they'll tell their friends who may turn out to be great clients or may tell you they purchased a rack full of shite at BB and want you to install it. As the big boys here say... you now have a choice. Isn't that why you are in business for yourself?

Brands are brands... the stuff written about brands being secondary is totally true. We got let go as a Vidikron dealer recently due to low sales and picked up Dream Vision the same day. The brand the client is buying is YOU. The electronics that end up in the house are secondary to what YOU provide which is ultimately the right mix for the client. The ones you don't get are hard to swallow but you've got to learn how to do it.

Press on CresNut.. but do as I have done and plan an exit strategy from this biz if it becomes the total pile of crap it has the potential to become. I am planning on getting into home reconstruction as soon as the bank account gets big enough (and you can bet they'll all have killer systems).

Hmmm, ZON at Crutchfield....Big da** deal.....lol

Crutchfield sells all sorts of stuff. So what?

There's a plethora of other companies sell virtualy every product that can be considered custom.

There's links to some sites right on this site. Who cares?

You bought it from Crutchfield? I guess they'll come out and install it for you, hey?

I've actually had a customer send an order BACK to Crutchfield since he couldn't find anyone to do the install.

Play hardball, it works.

CresNut............... Does your name have anything to do with being a Crestron dealer? I guess I assumed it did since I saw ya around here.... I'm doubting that now.

I've been in this industry a long time. I've always specialized in Custom Projects and Customer sevice. That combnation creates happy customers, repeat businsess, and referals. I really dont care what I sell as long as its reliable. As long as I can have AMX to control it, whats behind the Touchpanel doesnt matter to anyone. They buy my knowledge and design.

Anyway, I'm really tired of theads like this... Theres been too many lately..... There are always exceptions, but I honestly believe that if your business is not succeeding right now, your doing something very wrong.

Chicago is a Prime example of this right now. There are a lot of Companies around here. Some are on pace for Record years, Some are not. So what does that say? You cant blame the market when both ends of the spectrum can be found within 30 miles of each other. The Internet/mail order companies are affecting Some shops but not others? Please... Get a grip.....

I do sell Crestron and we program both AMX and Crestron. Why would you doubt that?


Agreed.



Agreed, next year will be our 20th year in this business. How long have you been in the industry?



Who is blaming the market??? I guess I need to spell it out for some of you.

Do you guys remember when VCR's and LaserDisc's (hint DVD's not invented yet) did not have any discrete IR codes???? (another hint, Remote Central was not around yet)

What did we do in the CEDIA industry? We complained about it. I have been involved with CEDIA since the beginning. Some of us did more than complain, we did something about it. I know that may come as a big shock to many of you but what we did is STOP specifying equipment without discrete IR codes

Did this stop manufactures from selling components without Discrete codes? Hell no, but some of them took notice and changed or added the codes, others added a service remote with these codes. When a rep would come into one of my stores with a new product I would ask them point blank do these devices have discrete IR codes. If the answer was no, or I don't know (Which means no) then I would tell him sorry we're not interested.

What do you think this thread is about? This thread is not about mail order, this thread is about sending a message just like we did with the IR codes. In other words don't support a company that has these kind of distribution channels. STOP specifying this equipment. If you do then it sends a clear message, not just to Oxmoor but to all the manufactures. If you don't and they are successful two things happen.

First only 1 percent of 1 percent of new homes installed distributed audio. So if they succeed some one fails. I understand you don't think it will happen to you. Yeah I know its always some other guys problem.

Second if they succeed then other manufactures who would normally never look to this kind of distribution may take a closer look and or start to do it themselves. If this happens then many more AV dealers will perish, and since I seem to be the only one in this thread who gives a sh#t about this industry and the people in it I will be very upset if more friends go away.

Having a good business plan is essential and should be an important part of your company, but having a profitable prosperous market is also very important.

If you don't see the real problem that we are exposing here then we won't be able to help you. Again talk to your vendors, talk to them and ask questions of them, demand to know what they intend to do, and most of all have the balls to stand up and call bullsh#t if you see it. So guess what I'm standing up and I'm calling Bullsh#t and it smells like Oxmoor.

*Maybe* I'd be a little more concerned about Crutchfield selling the product if it was a real product and not a piece of crap glorified round knob that I'd be ashamed to put on a job. Are you also upset that Crutchfields is selling volume controls?

. Are you also

Now THAT upsets me....lol

While I do agree with your assessment of this particular product, the real danger is many manufactures are like sheep, or maybe more like lemmings. As soon as one of them find a bit of success the others will use that very success as a president, and if we complain THEN they will point back to this and say "We don't want to do it, but we have to stay competitive"

Think of it like this, we (the custom dealers) are like the parents. The manufactures are like the children.

Some of your kids might be like angels and those kids would never distribute their product in this way.

One of your kids is the black sheep of the family. They don't care so much for the parents and they even say to hell with the parents I will distribute my products anyway that I chose.

So YOU as the parent have a choice to make. Do you (a) let the bad child do what he wants and say nothing potentially undermining the other children and setting a bad example for them to follow? Do you (b) spank the bad child and show the other children what happens if they distribute their products such as this? Or do you do nothing and say oh well I didn’t really like that child anyway, I don’t really even acknowledge this as one of my children. Or that child is too ugly and I won’t claim to have anything to do with that child so he can run wild and distribute his products any way he wants to.

Don’t support BAD children even if they do only have 1 ugly knob.




Yes even that kind of bothers me, however if they promise to leave all the active components alone I would be willing to compromise and let them sell VC's.

I've been involved in one way shape or form since 87, Full Time employeed since 91, Management since 92.

You agreen that clients should be buying the saleman, not the product.... Then why are you so upset that Company "B"is selling the same product? That makes absolutely no sense to me. Go ahead and build a Tweater across the street from my shop, Hell, throw a Frys up down the street, and pop up a Best buy in my back yard. All thats going to do is drive market awareness. I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over the guy who walks into Tweeter and buys a $3000 "Home Theater" package, or worse yet, a $999 HTIB... They are not my clients. nor would I want them to be.

Dont get me wrong..... where I work has a very established retail bsiness & Showroom. And we do our best not to be undersold. But thats up front, My department is relegated to a 25x15 room in the back.......