I have some question for some of you seasoned pro's. My business partners and I has just finished wiring a 7,000 square foot home. (ALARM) Wiring include 15 alarm glass breaks, 12 smokes, 4 heat detectors, 2 external sirens, 28 alarm contacts, 3 motion detectors for lighting triggers, 2 HAI Touch screens, 1 fixed Keypad, (Lighting) Cat 5 for ALC switches (15), (AUDIO) 20 whole house speaker runs(4 outdoors), wire run for 10 keypads (Russound 6.6 & ABUS)with 2 local input source, A Media Room wired for true THX surround sound room (7.1),(INTERCOM)NUTONE IM 5000 9 locations. (Thermostat control)3 cat5 runs. 9 Television runs, 9 Phone runs, and 6 cat5e runs for PC home base Network. (Cameras) 4 camera runs to the ONQ can for Modualation and also 4 runs to a High end PC for remote access to cameras from the internet. (Internet and PC setup) There may be one or two things I have left out, but what I need to know is what do custom installer companies charge(LABOR)for a job like this. Assuming all of the parts (connectors, speakers, ampilfers, HAI controllers, ONQ TV and Telephone module etc are paid for. Around how much would a company charge for installation, configuration, programing and Training for all of these devices on a job like this. We don't want to over charge and we certainly don't want to under charge our client. All inputs would be helpful.

So, are you an installation company or not???

Does LA require a license to install security systems?

Yes, we are an installation company. We have been in business for 5 years as an Computer Networking, Web design and PC repair Business. We are now starting a new division within our company (Home Automation). This is our first job of this magnitude. I just want some feed back on Labor charges for such jobs. We are new in the Home Automation world, but we are moving along very fast. Just trying to Break Through thats all (Geraldb. We also have a 9,000 square foot home that we are doing some work in. We have a nice size customer base already on the Computer side. All of our Home Automation customers have come from our computer side of the Business. When they come in to get a computer fixed or Need a Site survey on a Network Installation. We drop off Audio, Video, and Lighting information. Next thing you know, they are telling us about a friend that is building a house. GERALDB we are a small outfit thats just trying to get some numbers. It don't have to be your exact numbers. Just an Idea. IF you want you can email me. let me know! LATER!

Edit: I was posting at the same time as you techguy.

techguy:

You should be figuring out how much labor and materials are involved in this project and bidding accordingly. What if I told you 3K, which would be low? Would you lower your price? What if I quoted 50K? Would you higher your price?

I did a search on your user name to try and figure out if you were in the business (because your question is a little bit unusual for soemone that's in the business) and discovered that you asked the same type of question almost a year ago:
[Link: remotecentral.com]

*It's good that you are asking questions* but you really need to learn more about estimating if you are asking these questions. Break your project down into tasks and ask yourself how long it is going to take to complete each of those tasks and price your bid accordingly. For instance, 1 hour to pre-wire for each speaker wire run. And don't forget to add time for all the things that are often overlooked such as the 10 visits spent with the client going over locations etc....

Only you know what the hourly labor rates are in your area that you have to compete against.

NO LA do not require a license to install an alarm system (RESIDENTIAL). However, if you choose to become a Monitoring Alarm Station or distributor of Monitoring contracts, then the story changes. You would need to have an Level 2B alarm Technician on staff that lives in a 25 mile radius. Sound crazy? Yeah I know. Also if you're installing alarm systems in a commerical building, it get even worse and more expensive. No commerical Building for us. (at least not now)

Bidding projects of that size will require a lot of home work. Can you get from point A to B relatively easy or not. I have wired LARGE homes in the same sime it takes to wire a mid-sized home, all depending on what is going in and can you get there easily.
As QQQ has mentioned, look at your past installs and see how long they took for each phase and go from there. When you start looking at all the details of the install, you will be suprised at how much "little" stuff there is that is often overlooked.

Good luck !

QQQ, thanks for your input. Just to clarify something here. We are not bidding on this job. We have the job! We started the job, the wiring is complete. We will be the last to walk out the door I was talking about trim outs and components programming, installation, and training. anyway, thanks for your inputs.

A LOT...

for several reasons...the most obvious would be an age-old adage...

IF YOU HAVE TO ASK, YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT!

Also...a lot of less than optimal subsytems for integration into a home that size!

I am actually doubting that YOU and your "business partners" are pros, or you'd not need to ask this question. IF you are a consumer...

This would be a purely T&M job for us...based on all the differnet things involved...there would be NO commitment to time!

I would charge you, and your "business associates" $95.00 per hour to install gear you didn't purchase from me, $125.00/hour for programming and $155.00 for computer networking. You would ALSO be required to sign a waiver that says NOTHING is my guys fault...because you didn't buy the gear from me...basically...if they DROPPED a speaker, and shattered it...YOU'D have to replace it...

WE OFFER NO WARRANTY...GAURENTEE or OTHER for gear we don't sell...and we leave it to you get get ALL non supplied issues dealt with!

Our rates are VARY by $20.00/hour from the people who use us throughout, and the people who buy everything cheaply, then call us to install it!

hope this helps..

avdude

Thanks avdude, your input helped. An HAI Rep told us we could charge anywhere from 1.50 to 2.00 per square ft. of a house with a fully populated HAI Omni II Controller. Which is the case we have. not including the the other components that we will be installing.

Thanks Guys for your input.

This is a strange question

my first thought was

Charge enough to pay for a new car,holiday,and a gambling spree in Vegas!;)

I dont do jobs of that nature but as in most jobs Charge what you are worth and dont back down and dont under sell yourself.
The hard part is figuring how much your worth.

Hasn't this question popped into anyones head? "Why would you do a job of that magnitude (and almost complete it) without setting a price FIRST?" And question #2...What's up with the 15 GlassBreaks!? I hope your ready for LOTS of false alarms...

15 glass breaks was a DEMAND made by the customer. I told my client they didn't need all of those damm glassbreaks. QUESTION Why would you do a job of that magnitude (and almost complete it)without setting a price First? ANSWER: We only gave the customer a bid on the wiring. I think we will approach this a little different the next time. Thanks for your input guys.

I would stick to the IT stuff and get together with an experienced AV company if you value your reputation and your clients. Unfortunately you need to charge about 50% less than usual on the things that you are unfamiliar with. Your client shouldn't be paying for your learning curve. Regular trim out should be billed at whatever you bill but programming should be discounted as it's going to take you a long time to get right.

BTW...how is it that you only have 9 tv/phone runs in a 7000sqft. house? Something is wrong there man! It's really scary that you have been in business for 5 years and are asking this question. Obviously it needed to be asked...but, the owner of the company should get some professional training before you get yourself in too deep dude!

JBL, my client do not have more TV connections because he didn't want anymore than that. So there is nothing wrong there. (REASON?) most of the rooms will not have a TV in it nor phone. AGAIN, by request of the customer. The customer don't believe in watching TV in their bedrooms. Sound odd? Well I'm with you JBL. BUT These customers are both Doctors, So maybe they know something we don't. By the way, They really only wanted about 3 TV connection. They only added the other TV runs for selling (home) purposes.

JBL, don't worry, we will not charge the customer for our training. There may be some bumps in the project, But I can assure you this is not the biggest nor most difficult job I've ever been apart of. If you look at some of the devices that we are installing, you would see that they are entry level components. It's not like we are trying to install a Crestron or AMX system. However if we came across a client who wants the top of the line Automation systems you better believe I will give you a call. Maybe in a couple of years we will be ready for Crestron. Also we have a programmer who can program a horse to fly to the moon. So I don't think loading software on a PC and configuring a Russound 6.6 audio system is that hard. Crestron maybe, but not Russound.

I didn't ask anyone for instruction on installation or programming, I only ask for Industry standard prices on labor charges. If there is such a thing in this industry. THATs IT! Thanks for your help JBL.

This message was edited by techguy on 02/22/04 20:51.