From a DIYer's perspective, I think RA2 and Homeworks are 2 different markets. As a DIYer I wouldn't do a HW install in my house by myself, but I'd do a Ra2 install. And I can probably make the lights go on and off. :-)

How often does it happen that you go into a home to JUST do lighting control? That happen a lot? As a CI you bring a lot to the table. You know, by constant exposure to this stuff, what works and what doesn't. Best practices when setting up this or that. You make the integration more natural to the way people live. You guys think beyond the simple light switch because you configure this stuff all the time. People who aren't CIs don't think about it. They don't have to. Flip a switch... light goes on. Now when you install a lighting control system.... it needs to work logically... like a human would make it work if they didn't have to think about it.

That's where the CIs shine.

You make the complex stuff simple

I bet your right, they will probably improve the programming and some of the hardware.

More often than you might think. I'd say about 20% of my jobs are shades and lighting only.

I would guess that the average lighting system has between 50-75 loads. My personal system has around 60 central loads and 6 decentralized.

One of the goals of lighting control is to clean up the walls. Home and Away buttons on keypads are nice but only a DIY would desire the techie benefits of a lighting system without the aesthetic.

If Lutron follows their history Radio Ra2 will remain restricted for 2-3 years while the system is perfected. Then it will be released into the electrical distribution market, with very slight pricing or feature restrictions.

I employ conditonals on perhaps 10% of my lighting jobs. Typically a toggle is a toggle, a scene is a scene and KISS the best paradigm. DIY are not the issue. Electrical contactors are. A DIY is not going to heir a CI but the EC may be competition. More importantly are the way manufacturers setup their pricing structure and the electrical distribution works on very small profit margins. We cannot exist on those margins.

One of the neat segways from Raido Ra to Homeworks was the limit of 32 loads and 16 keypads. Expansion via Chronos was a mega-kludge and brought the price into Homeworks territory but with few of the benefits of Homeworks. The new Homeworks QS will be a VERY differernt animal. But if the only difference is the absence of conditionals Lutron may be instroducing a situation where this product could canibalize Homeworks sales.

Alan

As an electrician, it's an easier concept to sell your service. The overhead costs are far less than a CI's. As a CI, there are many more factors that we have to deal with in order to be succesful. Training, testing, inventory, and many other things affect the bottom line. Margins are shrinking because of the current economic conditions and with the age of the internet so in order to stay in business we will have to raise our labor rates. I'm all for selling service but something needs to pay for my training, testing, the time it takes to write up bids, and looking at this site every day ;) I think this whole Lutron debate is because guys want to protect their business. I for one am excited about RA2 and hope Lutron won't let anyone with a pulse install it.

from what i was told,
their will be 3 different tiers for resellers.

the lowest does not get access to software at all,
all programming must be done via pads etc . .
that will probably be the electricians ..

middle gets restricted version of the software,

and the top tier gets full version of software,
longer warranty, and more . .

I like that setup.  Hopefully the middle tier won't be open to just anyone who shows up for a 1.5 day training.

What is the idea behind having an RF thermostat that talks to an RF lighting system?  Is there any benefit other than being able to talk to the thermostat from a control system through the RA2 rs232/IP interface?

As I type this I think I figured it out.  Temperature setbacks on Away and Vacation modes, plus incorporating the temperature level into a scene; so Scene 1 = lights at 60% and temp at 72 degrees.

Can you tell I don't do much lighting control?  Hopefully that will change in the near future...

Yes, you are on the right track and setting back the thermostat based on the clients schedule.

i was told two levels.

100 loads, software progamming

200 loads, extra software programming options

and to the question about the differeces between RR2 and HWW the only difference is conditionals.

just like all other things in our industry the days of being an elite installe company because you can carry XYZ brand is coming to an end. RTI/URC is getting more powerful, RR2 is right on HWW heels, and software packages for our industry are becoming less overpriced and difficult to use ( ie... DTOOLS before, tigerpaw, etc... now). making a living just because you do crestron or homeworks, or runco will soon (much to my happiness) be over. the playing field is becoming more level and it will soon be completely based on what you can do not what equipment you carry.

i have my level 3 cedia cert., am getting my HAA and ISF this coming week, and will shortly there after be getting my THX. next year is my designer cert from cedia, and i am starting in on green tech. training and LEED classes.

instead of complaining about products, ask what you have done lately to better yourself or your company. i am a very small company with big clients. when i started in this industry i could not have dreamed of having my client base with with my products and company resources.


YOU are your company's greatest asset, not the systems you carry.

Steven

As far as i know the only benefit to a RF thermostat is that you can replace an existing thermostat in a retro fit scenario.

When you say "an RF thermostat talking to an RF lighting system" what do you mean? Is this a new product? Part of RadioRa2? Or something else?

Any thermostat that can communicate with a control system can be used to trigger lighting scenes or whatever else you can think of but wired or RF has nothing to do with it. The control systems capabilites are the important thing.

EDIT: Nevermind i googled RadioRa2 thermostat and found it in the CEPro article. I had no idea they were adding a thermostat.. Mostly because theres no mention of it at radiora2.com :).

To clarify what i was saying earlier.. The thermostat being RF will just make it easier to install in a retro fit application. The lighting processor will handle scenes and its already possible to use a 3rd party thermostat to do what you described.

the decora style tstat readout is awesome. that alone will sell itself. the small remote temp sensor will allow to pinpoint temps in seating areas and such instead of wall locations. i think he told me the system could average multiple temp sensors to maintain temps in more than one area.

yes it can!!

very nice feature.

steven

cant wait to see a rf relay board for dampners from them. that will open up a world of options.

Proaudio, You have RC Mail!

I think the Decora/Designer seeTemp t-stat looks pretty silly, at first glance. How does the homeowner adjust the setback temp?

I appreciate the subtle, minimalist design, but only to an extent.

Looks too busy - why can't it just be the 3 buttons, and 2 numbers (actual room temp and set temp)? The 2 scales look very 1970s, to me.

Edit - can't find an image of it online, but p. 17 of the HW Wireless QS red brochure.

I guess we'll have to wait until CES for the HW Wired/4/8 QS brochure.