yes, tstat works with RadioRa 2. So does universal remote.

Just because everyone can get it doesn't mean they will be doing it right. I am sure you have all seen the poorly executed Crestron pics allover this forum.

Name brands and expensive logo's are no longer exclusive and will not sell your system/services by themselves. Put together a "what you will get from us" package that explains why your better.

Most of your clients have no idea....

A. That any of your stuff even requires programming until you tell them. They come from a world of out of the box solutions like the ipod or their car and as far as they know your Lutron system will be just like anyone elses.. so why pay more?

B. That programming can be different from one dealer to the next. One dealer may provide them with a basic feature set while another may hand them an illogical nightmare vs your properly programmed system.

So step up your sales pitch and charge for consultation & system design and you wont feel a thing.

They may have their robots.txt file set to block indexing. Most search engines will honor the disallow command.

the system will allow the t-stats, but t-stats are not going to be available immediatly. the system is an average of 20% cheaper across the board. no longer need a chronos system, the processors have a built in clock, and no need for the bridge. the system now has occupancy sensors and temperature sensors that can go anywhere. and the new remote can be placed on the wall, anywhere, and surrounded by a standard decora plate. can you say, light switch anywhere, wow!!

i really like the system and am looking forward to the rollout later this year. software beomes available in october.

steven

it sure does look like a really nice system! seems like they have given alot of thought to what we want.

no longer need a chronos system, the processors have a built in clock, and no need for the bridge.

Will it be able to handle Vacation Mode or similar?

I am beside myself here. It took me 3 @#king years to become a Homeworks Dealer and in a matter of minutes the value of this has gone out the window. How many homes do you work with that need more than 200 devices? Toss in the fact that they will have no way to control distribution of this product, hello internet and ebay!, and you can kiss Homeworks goodbye. Now just throw in a prodigy system and what the f@#k does anyone need my company for?

I watched the demise of the Alarm industry and I am witnessing the demise of ours. It is really frightening. Gone are the days of making $4k on a plasma tv and soon will be the days of making a good living on an install.

And that is what will happen to this industry. I get my fair share of calls from people with f@#ked up systems but what does that do for me? When people hear what it will take to make these systems work right they balk and I kindly walk away.

The thing is that Homeworks was so far ahead of Radio Ra that it was very easy to justify the additional cost and in some cases it was just too small a system. Now what do you tell people? I know that using switches in place of dimming panels is wack but most people dont. I have seen HW systems with a room full of switches...

I'm fully with Vincent on this one! Those are my thoughts exactly. I dont have an issue with Prodigy because there is a need for a competitive low end Crestron system. I do on the other hand have an issue with RA2 which will be available everywhere and simply put will kill HW.

I hear there will be mandatory requirements to unlock systems for 200 items. Mandatory training and purchase volume to allow for more than the standard 100 items RA2 allows natively. Not sure exactly how they plan on policing this but they are trying to care.

I understand being pissed that times are changing and technology is getting cheaper and more abundant. You couldn't have really expected Lutron to just sit back and market their existing systems while all these other "lighting control" systems are coming to market.

Of course they were going to take advantage of new technology so that people by THEIR product and not the next guy's.

I seem to see a little bit all the time that makes me really believe that our business has changed and regardless of the economy, it will be different as we move forward.

I'm a dealer for RadioRA and I thought it was over priced. Even though it was overpriced our dealer cost still wasn't amazing so I really don't think you need to worry too much about super low pricing. I am especially happy at the lower base cost for control with RS-232. I missed out on so many lighting control jobs because the cost for entry was too high in a small room. The more advanced software to program the 200 devices is only available after being certified by Lutron so there shouldn't be the lighting control trunk slammers that you are worried about.

I barely receive any calls for lighting control so I am not getting too worked up; but it does appear that they have a great product arriving this fall. I will be adding lighting control to more entry-level systems.



Can anyone answer the Vacation Mode question asked above?


When you say Universal Remote, are you referring to URC and the direct communication between the handheld controller and dimmer, or general remote control integration?

A project that requires Homeworks today can be done with something less expensive tomorrow. I have configured many Homeworks systems that have very very simple programming. The only reason the client was quoted Homeworks is because its rock solid and because of scalability. If i can find a product thats just as reliable at a lower cost then i will be able to sell more lighting systems.

I remember when we spec'd Crestron ST-1500's & ST-CP's because they were the only rock solid customizable 1 room solutions. Today you can put in an MX-450 and have reliable control.

The only thing we can do is continue to learn and grow and be able to provide something better than the new guy. When they new guy jacks an install up, pull out your T&M notebook and get ready to earn a lot of money in labor for products you are not responsible for.

Show your potential clients examples of your work & documentation & GUI if your using a control system and let them decide if they want the best or not. Nothing has changed.. thats what we/they do now.

If RadioRa2 kills Homeworks... at least the sales go to Lutron.

^^^ Thats how i would be thinking about things if i just signed off on RadioRa2. Why let another company own this new market? Homeworks will either get a bunch of new products features or vanish over the next few years.

Look at Crestron. They just released an entry level product (prodigy). Does that ruin their current business model? No. It addresses the ever changing market. When is the last time you thought of URC or RTI as simple universal remote controls? They are both on their way to becoming full blown control systems and they already win projects that have Crestron/AMX/Control4 spec'd by other dealers. And it doesn't mean Crestron is taking a step back.. they have Digital Media and World Search and a brand new line of touchpanels (some here some on the way).

My first job was working for a guy who only wanted to sell products that would let him be the exclusive dealer in our area. Guess how many reps/ manufacturers went a long with that? Not very many. He spends his life frustrated about something he cant control when he should be focused on becoming the best in our area. Given his situation in our industry... being there at the right time.. doing custom installation 30 years ago and a Crestron dealer for 20.. he should own our market but he doesn't.

We have to stay focused on reality and "make it work".

I understand what you guys are saying and I really wish I could see the glass as half full here but it's hard to get past the fact that RA is already available everywhere and HW was the big ticket. Now with RA2 and every discount store in America trying to get into home automation I'ts going to sit about as well as selling plasmas. The big picture is bad for us!

Not just plasmas and lighting... Everything your working with today will have low to no markup tomorrow IMO.

We have to keep the glass half full by becoming more efficient at design & installation so that we can make 2 systems happen in the same time it took to do 1 system in the past.

We also have to calculate exactly how much time we really put into a system and bill for it. There are still guys out there meeting with, emailing and sitting on the phone with clients for hours and hours without submitting a bill for the time.

The more efficient we become the more profit we earn with labor and the more 'together' we become as far as documentation, the more we can justify the expense for our time. The better we get at billing for all of our labor.. the less we will depend on hardware profit. Obviously it would be nice to make money on the products we install but its something we cant control and its an effort in futility. What we can control is how efficient we run our operations and how much we charge for our time.

Everyone should take a look at this website. [Link: wiki.cytexone.com] Its slightly off topic for the thread but relates to what i was getting at with becoming efficient. These guys are doing some of the things we (the company i work for) do and they are doing some of the things we have discussed doing but havent gotten around to it yet and they are doing some things that never even occurred to us.

They have created a system to have racks fully ready for installation, nothing new i know but just read the website and see how well they are doing it. These guys are cutting their on-site time down very low by putting in the hours at the shop. This has to be cutting travel expenses and wasted hours driving to and from plus it puts your guys in the shop every day where you can keep track of what they are really doing all day.

Anyhow.. i have been around long enough to know that we have nothing to worry about. Cheap gadgets are here to stay so we have to get out of the market that bestbuy and amazon currently own and move on up. ( i wont insert a pic of george jefferson here) :).