Use a T2 and get discreet outs on the IRF-6

The "SAT" Button on the remote acts as an on command for the satellite box. SAT-power works as a good work around for off command if you want discretes, but i agree just leave them on

Just make sure you tell your client that when his power goes out he has to pay you to come over and turn the receviers back on.

Crap design + Crap equipment + Crap control system = Business in the crapper.

Next time you should consider a decent control system.

My two.

Hey Studiocats1
Maybe every system you do is open checkbook. That's not the case hear I can assure you.
I don't think it's fair to call the TSU 6000 a crap control system, yes it's relevant.
Educate the client, explain pros and cons, and they make the decision. If when the power goes out he has to remember to check the satellite receivers and any other non discrete component (power)then that's what they'll do. If they have to flip to few extra screens to control their system then they will. If not then cough up the extra 4k. Now if this client was completely helpless then a bulletproof system would be a must. These folks are pretty savvy and I feel confident it won't be a problem for them. Once again it's all relevant.
That's how I conduct all my business and through referrals I stay in business.
CMack

RCA Boxes work that way, but to my knowledge (And t may be out of date as I stopped using hughes some time ago) this is not the case witht he Hughes boxes.

Cmack......

ok, maybe the system isnt "Open Checkbook" but any 50+k system should be designed with a control system in mind up front. Not as an afterthought.......

It's really gratifying to see so many installers convinced that a system like this absolutely demands a control system. Like many in this business, at some point I figured out that it's ALL about ease of use and started presenting a control system as the single most important element of every system we do. I wouldn't sell a 50K system without a control system any more than I would sell a mono VCR to go with a home theater system. As others here can tell you, when you start to think about it that way and present it that way, no one spending 50K doesn't buy a control system. The payoff has been endless referrals, especially since both husband and wife can always now operate the system (i.e. when everyone in the family can operate the system, at a minimum that's twice as many referral sources).

Having said all that, I think people are giving cmack too hard of a time, especially considering the fact that it doesn't sound like he is a Crestron or AMX dealer.

This is the problem with this industry. Too many designers out there that don't consider control at all until its too late. Then they scramble for answers and end up with a client that has to go around turning things on (or off) when the system gets out of sync.

The TSU 6000 is fine for certain applications. This isn't one of them. Sure you could get it to work the way you say, But it sure won't be bulletproof. Or easy to operate. (Ins't this why we sell control systems?)

I can't tell you how many jobs I came on after someone has sold them a $500 remote for a $50,000.00 system. Then when I put in a Crestron they say, "How come the original vendor didn't show me this control option? I would have paid more for it to work right."

It has nothing to do with open checkbooks. For 50K+ you could have sold him a complete solution with a Crestron.

Good Luck!

But like QQQ said cmack probably isn't a crestron or amx dealer. So what other options could he go? Hire a Crestron dealer to come in and do it?
I have seen customers wanting to spend a lot of money on the good stuff but they still could not justify spending $1000 on a Pronto pro much less $5000+ for a crestron setup when they can just go turn on the couple pieces if and when the power ever does go out.
I also did an install one time on a small surround setup with dvd, revceiver, vcr, dish, tv and the guy thought it was crazy to invest any amount of money on a remote when all the equipment came with remotes and he could use the TV remote to run most of them anyway.
And he is still very happy with his setup and I have received several referrals off of him.


Eric J.
www.integrationpros.com

If your going to jump into 50K+ Projects, becoming a dealer for Crestron or AMX is a MUST. The service calls alone could put you out of business if these large systems dont work right......

I dont even make the control system an option in systems of this level. Its built in right from the begining... Like I stated before, Its beter the chop a few bucks out the electronics to make the budget (f there REALLY is one.......)

You NEED to have confidence in what your selling. More often than not, the Control System sale is lost because the salesperson does not understand the benefits.

Anybody can go buy a bunch of gear with remotes and set it up in their home, Its up to us to put SYSTEMS together that make sense and are easy to use.

There is nothing that a Crestron or AMX system can do in terms of bulletproof control of A/V gear, that a Niles Intellicontrol, an RTI TheaterTouch, or a Pronto/MX800 or similar macro capable remote combined with a Xantech Gatekeeper (or a Niles IntelliControl MSU) can't do.

All these combinations provide the installer with simple ways to program an IF/Else statement. For Example:

IF the component is already powered on, do nothing.
ELSE IF the component is off, issue the toggle power IR command.

Crestron and AMX have the advantage of lovely huge touchscreens, and the ability to display status of RS232 components, but in essence, most real world installations of AMX/Crestron systems simply duplicate the capabilities of the systems I've mentioned above WITHOUT further internet/RS232 displays of status or TV Guides etc.

My personal feeling is that huge touchscreens may be impressive, easy to understand and profitable, but in actual use with a Home Theater offer some extreme ergonomic DISADVANTAGES compared to the original remote controls provided by manufacturers of PVR's like Tivo and Replay, DVD players, HDTV set top boxes, Satellite receivers and other devices that present ON-SCREEN Guides and Menus that must be navigated with care by the client. They produce the confusing "touch-screen nodding" when the client must look at the TV to see where the cursor is, then look at the touch screen to see which button to press.

Only the most advanced and imaginative Crestron and AMX systems are providing Guide and Menu interfaces for these devices on the TOUCH SCREEN itself! 99% of the Touch Screen systems I see in the field provide the customer with an experience that is much LESS satisfying than using the original remote control when operating menus and guides.

Many remote control manufacturers (Marantz, RTI, Niles, Home Theater Master, Xantech) make models that incorporate hard button navigation controls (thumbpads and joysticks) that are easy to find by feel and far more fun for the client. They truely allow the original remote controls to be put away.

Couple a remote control like that with the IF/ELSE power sensing capabilities easily installed via the IntelliControl, the RTI, the Xantech Gatekeeper, and you present your client with a satisfying fun experience and bullet proof macros even when the components are a huge motly collection of TOADS!

I would remind those who say that a $50,000 system MUST have AMX or Crestron that referrals happen because the CLIENT IS HAPPY with the installation. Sometimes that happiness can be created through expending more of the budget on additional subwoofers in a large room, sometimes on a more capable video processor or projector, RATHER than a control system that is nothing more than an awkward heavy and unwieldy touchscreen with no more capability than a Pronto installed with a Niles Intellicontrol...

In my opinion, custom installation is defined by customizing the system to the real needs, desires and situation of the client. You cannot make rules about what HAS to be installed at any price.

Best Regards,

-Eric

Eric Johnson
www.hometheaterpro.com

Phone 1-800-247-7001

very well put..



Eric Johnson
www.integrationpros.com

The forum as usual will not allow me to make a long post. So here it comes in pieces...

Your post below is almost as misguided as the one where you said contracts weren’t that important as long as you took care of the customer…

Speaking in those terms, there is nothing that a Mercedes can do that a Chevy Cavalier can’t do. I’ll take the Mercedes. Of course, there ARE MANY MANY things a Crestron can do that the systems you mention can’t that are too numerous to mention.

Is that like saying cars have the advantage of wheels but otherwise how do they get me someplace faster than my feet…


This message was edited by QQQ on 07/30/03 17:03.

Even ASSUMING that’s true, if the touchscreen is much easier to operate for most customers, isn’t that what matters? I love the MX-700 personally, but as excellent as its interface is (and it IS excellent), it is far too complicated for technophobes. And technophobes DO comprise a LARGE percentage of the population.

This message was edited by QQQ on 07/30/03 17:04.

Easy to understand. You just summed it ALL up in three words.

There is no need to try and use that angle. Don’t suggest a profit motive on our part and I won’t suggest one on your part since you do work for Home Theater Master.

There are only three disadvantages I can think of:
1.Too large to fit in the hand. Not a complete non-issue, but largely a non-issue for most people.
2.Sometimes multiple screen pages are required to fit all the commands for a device, but if approached properly this is also largely a non-issue.
3. Can't operate some funtions without looking at the screen.


This message was edited by QQQ on 07/30/03 15:53.