I've got 2 devices which work fine with the TSU 7000. With the RF Extender, one device does not work at all although the RF Extender is apparently emitting signals, the other device works only if the RF Extender is directly in front of it or sometimes if an emitter is in the correct angle to the receiving eye...

Does someone know if I can connect some kind of stronger infrared emitters to the RF Extender, got some other solution?

Harry

My 2P.

There are a few threads in this forum and the Pronto Forum that dicuss placement of the RF Extender. Do a search on Extender and placement and see what you find. If I recall correctly, there were discussions about orientation with regard to RF and maybe IR. The Extender normally ships with 8 IR xmitters that can be stuck onto your components. Are you using those as well?

I have had ccfs where the Pronto forgot that one component was to get RF signals...but you say it looks like the RX77 is emitting IR.

If the signal is too weak, and you are using one of the double LEDs that comes with the 77, try a Xantech single LED (not a "blink" version, though). A single one will allow more current through than a double, and that might solve your problem.

Xantech Blink-IRs could be a problem, too; I think they are a visible LED in series with an IR LED, so they require more voltage. They might put out both visible and infrared light, but other manufacturers have told me that they behave differently from plain old IR LEDs.

Is it possible that the IR is already too strong? That is very rare, but I dealt today with turning up the IR output on an older Niles unit...we had to turn it down six years ago when we put in the Sony DSS receiver, but today it needs more IR for some reason.

Placement of the Extender in my case simply doesn't matter... I use both - the extender itself and the IR emitters. They work very fine with all the other components.
The problem with those 2 "special" compontents is that they apparently use remotes with very strong IR but the receiving unit is not very sensitive.

Harry

It is now time to be explicit and note something for the future:

If you told us the brand and model number of the components you are having trouble with at the beginning of your post, maybe it would have jogged someone's memory. As it is we are trying to give generic answers.

A specific instance: I once saw a Lexicon remote (IR learning type) blow three LEDs in series connected to a Niles IRP-6+. All worked fine until Somfy motor IR codes were used. Their remote apparently put out enough light to read by ( ! ) and that made the Niles put out so much current that it blew LEDs.

Now, that is not your problem, but I suddenly thought of it when trying to be specific. Help us help you. Just exactly what equipment are you having problems with?

Exactly - in one case (BeamIt from Feller) it works if I place an emitter directly onto the receiving eye but only in a certain angle and very inconsistently. If I put the Pronto itself very close to the eye it works, if I go away it won't work...


Great - I'll try that - thanks.


According to the behaviour described above I'd say I don't think this is the problem.

Sorry, I was not so specific, because I already have done this and no one answered, probably because it was too specific...
Now I'm getting info which I already can use and i get solutions I can try. That's actually what I wanted... ;-)
____________________
Now, to be specific:

The equipment used (just the ones NOT working):

- BeamIt from Feller which is a light remote control system: it works if I put the Pronto itself directly in front of it. If I move away it stops to work.
The extender seems to have a weaker signal - it is very difficult to position to make it work at all.
I can put an emitter directly in front of the receiving eye which sometimes works if you place it correctly - if it moves a little bit or the angle changes a little bit, it won't work any more. Some emitters seem to work better than others. Useless to me this way.

- Revox Tuner B261
With the Pronto itself everything works very fine but I can't get it to work with the extender or its emitters at all.
Don't tell me to replace the IR receiver of the tuner - this is already done with a brand new unit and now it works with the Pronto (before that it worked also perfectly - but only at a distance of max 15cm...)

Thanks in advance

Harry

I'd like John Fine to comment on this one. The fact that things work sporadically and only when at an angle leads me to believe that one of 3 things is the problem. A. The preamble from the RFX-6000 might be causing problems or B. The carrier frequency is barely in spec and on a fluke, something you do changes that. C. Toggle Codes

If it is a toggle code, for example, Play followed by Stop might work but Stop or Play Repeatedly may not.

It might help if you also posted a failing learned code so that John or some of the other IR timing gurus might be able to assist.

Best of Luck,

Lyndel

BeamIt: Not only at specific angles but at very short distances (15cm for the Pronto ITSELF - not the extender). With the extender working at a specific angle AND directly in front of BeamIt. If you put it at recommended distances and angles in all variations - NO WAY TO MAKE IT WORK.

A. The preamble from

Thanks - I'll give it a try and do a search on it. What could I try to find out if this is the problem?


I've analyzed BeamIt's Codes - they definitely ARE within specs of Pronto AND the Extender...
And I've tried all RF configurations - puh...
May be they have produced BeamIt this way to make it work good: weak receiving IR - does only react on very strong IR signals coming from BeamIt remote control, less noise from other remotes, from light and so on.

I cant actually tell if the Revox Tuner B261 is within specs of the Extender since it is in the Pronto's database. How cound I find this out? I think this really could be a problem.


No toggle codes at all. And it is not a single or some failing codes - they all work or they don't depending on the distance of Pronto to the receiving eye.
I tried to send the code once or as a repeated IR code by changing the codes manually - no change in behaviour either.

For me, at least for BeamIt, I need a stronger emitter. I've been successful with some original dual emitters (some of those originals work better than others) - could be working more consistently if I got a stronger one (Xantech???) I'll try this anyway.

Harry

You could try plugging a Xantech into the side of the RX77 or the RFX-6000. Might work. Once again, Dave Houston or John Fine's comments would be welcome here. I've about exhausted my feeble brain.

Lyndel

The RF preamble should not be a factor as it is not repeated by the RX77 as IR. RF energy from the Pronto might be directly affecting the receiver but this shoule be worse the closer you get.

I would like to see the CCF code itself as this sounds more like a problem of the carrier frequency being incorrect or the IR wavelength being vastly different. 6" (15cm) is not very good range - even IrDA (unmodulated 850nm) gets 100cm range. I doubt VERY much that BeamIt's IR output is much stronger than that of the Pronto. It really doesn't take much power to get excellent range with IR. PDA-ir (a CF card I designed for use with PDAs) had ~100' (30m) range with a single IR emitter and 3.3V.

Unfortunately, the BeamIt site has nothing in English so I cannot read their literature/specifications.

You say you replaced the IR receiver in Revox unit. What was the original IR receiver? What did you replace it with?


This message was edited by Dave Houston on 07/25/04 14:04.

I looked at the site, and see that the tech info that you might need is not there, so I emailed them. Hope for an answer!

Thanks - so I don't care about the preamble.


I'll post BeamIt's IR code later (at work now, actually...) - or do you need the whole CCF?


No specs on the net anyway, not even in german.


The original IR receiver was the initial receiver. Those units tend to loose function over time (a known problem at Studer/Revox). Before replacing: functioning perfectly at distance of max 20cm. After replacing: normal IR response.
Replacement by a new unit made by Studer/Revox, "same thing, but better", they say.

Just the specific hex code(s) at issue.


Unfortunately, that's not a very helpful description. It does, however, suggest they are using unorthodox methods as IR receivers (e.g. Panasonic PNA4602M, Vishay TSOP4838) do not significantly deteriorate over time.

I don't see specific enough information here for me to conclude much.

In any situation with multiple IR emitters, I always wonder about interference. IIUC you have a Pronto emitting both IR and RF and something converting the RF to IR. Depending on where everything is, the device might be getting IR from the Pronto as well as delayed IR from the other path and the two interfere (except when one is so close that it ovewhelms the other). Of course the above descriptions only let me guess at such things. Nothing clearly states that the two paths are are aren't possible in the way this was tested.

As already mentioned in this thread, a sample of Pronto Hex would really help narrow down the possibilities.