I am really interested in an MX-500 and an MX-700 remote. I like the MX-500 because of its functionality and price.

But I really like the MX-700 functionality and layout. However, to pay $350 more for this seems a bit much to me. I think part of this price is because of that stupid sidekick remote. You are having to pay for 2 remotes.

I don't get it! If the MX-700 is so great, and so easy to use, then why do you have to throw in a "dumb" version of a remote to make things easier to use. I bet most people would just toss this thing into the drawer, but we will be forced to pay for it. The whole idea of a universal remote is to have ONE remote, not one main remote and a 2nd "easy to use" remote. You would still have two remotes on the coffee table. Maybe I am missing something.

So my question is this - if anyone even knows. Will you be able to buy JUST the MX-700, and will the price be closer to the MX-500 price? I would have no problem if the price was $299 for the MX-700. But $499, that is more than a pronto, and a pronto is more customizable. Even if you could only get the MX-700, and no software to customize it, I would pay less, as I don't think the software would be necessary to get the full use out of the remote.

Bryan

that's not true. Look at this article [Link: theonion.com] :-)

But seriously. Don't a lot of cars come with a separate "valet" key. Think of the second remote in the same way. It limits access to the system so that you can tweak stuff with the big remote, but the baby sitter, nanny, friend , kid, spouse.... can't mess up your system by pressing the wrong button

Also I think the idea is not to need to change remote, and guess which one you need. Not that two people in the room should not each have their own remote.


I doubt the add on remote is worth 200, even without it I think the price would not be that different


isn't that the 500 :-)

Bryan,

At this point, not much is known. As I know it, the MX-700 and MX-200 are shipped together but packaged seperately. I suppose it's all up to the dealer. I would say that of the $500 for the package, $400-450 would be for the MX-700 and $50-100 for the MX-200 Sidekick.

Randy
www.RRDeals.com

It's going to be tough to separate the 200 from the 700. Because of their "custom installer" designation, they are being shipped in packages that will have three of each remote in them. Also, the 200 is only programmable from the MX Editor software. If you don't have an MX-700, you could only program the 200 with the codes that come with the software since it's not capable of learning. This makes it less desirable as a separate resale item.

Having used a 200, I doubt that it's independent value would be more than $20. Even if a dealer was to separately sell you an MX-700, it wouldn't be any cheaper than getting both together.

Mike
Surf Remote Control

This message was edited by MikeSRC on 03/22/02 11:53.27.

Anthony - liked the link - pretty funny!

Yes - cars come with a valet key - my last car did - and you know what I did with it? Absolutely nothing - it sat on my key rack. Now, it doesn't bother me, because compared to the price of the car, the additional key is nothing. But when you basically have a remote like the MX-500 selling for $118, and then you tweak it to get an MX-700 and sell it for $499 - well, that additional remote is easily another $50 - $100 in their eyes. So you take that out of there (let's say knock the price down $100), and then price the MX-700 more reasonably, let's say $399 for the package, you now have only the MX-700 for $299. That is my point.

Also, the sidekick remote is basically useless. Yes - a babysitter could use it to watch TV - that is it. Well, if you have kids, you know that kids want to watch DVDs over and over again. So then you would have to teach the babysitter how to use the MX-700 anyway, as the sidekick won't operate a DVD player as well. But I thought it was so easy to use that you wouldn't have to teach it to them? :) Also, how useful is a remote that can only change channels up and down, when you have satellite TV with over 100 channels and a nice handy guide. You can't even teach the sidekick remote how to use the guide. If this remote had a few more buttons, then maybe it would be useful. But as it is - it is useless. And just adds to the price of an already great remote.

Also, the reason I really like the MX-700 is the layout over the MX-500. They created separate buttons for the guide, menu, buttons, etc. And got rid of the pretty much useless M1 - M3 buttons on the bottom. I hate it when buttons on a remote are just labeled, M1. I may know what M1 is, but no one else does! And to me, the whole idea of a customizable remote is not only for me to be able to use it, but for anyone that wants to sit down and use it. So basically, the MX-700 without the software is not an MX-500 to me. I also like the fact that the MX-700 can place macros anywhere, and you can erase non-used devices. I am assuming with the MX-500 - you just blank out the device, but if you press the button from the main page, your remote will change to an empty device. That will confuse someone! I guess I would be willing to pay more for most of the features of the MX-700, but not more for the software and a 2nd useless remote.

Sorry for the rant, but I just had to get that out.

Randy - thanks - I figured not much would be known. It is in their style to "release" a remote months ahead of actual release, and then not tell anyone a damn thing about it. And then delay it, and delay it. :)

Bryan

If dealers decide not to sell them separately, my guess is that there will be a lot of those little Sidekick remotes up for sale on eBay shortly after the release.

Because none of this is actually available, though, all of this is just guesswork, including the prices. I wonder if they have actually started tooling up the plants to make them yet.

Sean

Mike - I was posting at the same time.

Yeah - I agree the sidekick is not worth much monetarily. But it is the marketing side that makes the price go higher because of it. The MX-700 also doesn't cost much more to make than an MX-500 - they use the same base, buttons, etc. And a lot of their R&D work was done on the MX-500, so they don't have as much to recoup costs from. It's not like a completely brand new remote from scratch.

I am just saying - they are justifying the $499 price tag because you get an additional MX-200 remote. Most people won't even get the software for it - as they will have their installer set it up for them. Part of the allure of the MX-500 is its functionality AND LOW price. They may be getting a little greedy - trying to approach ProntoPro Territory. I don't like touchscreens, but if I am going to pony up $500 for a remote, I might take a look at a COLOR screen fully customizable remote that I can get on the net for $650.

Just my take on it.

Bryan

No one has said you are paying $350 more for the MX-700. MSRP for the MX-700 Dual Remote System is $499. MSRP for the MX-500 is $189. My math puts the difference at $310. The "street price" has yet to be determined. It is at the discretion of the custom installers. I'm sure there will be many who will sell it sans custom programming at a price less than $499.


I hardly think it is a "stupid" remote. Every button except the LIGHT button can have up to a 190 step macro. This puts great power in the hands of those who don't want or need the complexity of the MX-700. As mentioned above - kids, spouses who do not want "so many buttons", etc.


See my comments above. This is hardly a "dumb" remote!


First, no one is forcing you to pay for anything. It is your choice. The whole idea of having a universal remote is to have one remote for many remotes, not to have only ONE remote. The idea of the SideKick is for bedroom TV/Cable setups, kids who shouldn't be playing around with all of the buttons on your MX-700, as Anthony mentioned, etc. etc.


URC is discussing the possiblity of selling the MX-700 without the SideKick, but I agree with the posters above that the SideKick is not a $200 remote. As far as I know, they have not made a decision yet on unbundling the SideKick.

The Pronto may be more customizable, but that is of no concern to anyone who wants a button remote. And it is not hugely more customizable. You haven't seen the software.


You haven't even seen the software, so how can you make such a bold statement? Yes, the software is needed to get the "full use" of the remote. It is not just an MX-500 with an MX-700 nameplate on it.

The software has LiveUpdate to include any new codes, including discrete codes, that are added to the database. It will also provide for increased functionality down the road, since both the PC program AND the firmware can be updated using the LiveUpdate feature. Pages can be hidden using the software, so that you can put codes on the remote that can be used in macros, but have them hidden so they are not used by "unscrupulous" users. There are a number of other things the software provides that cannot be done on the remote.


Also, this remote is not targeted to exactly the same audience as the MX-500. It is targeted to those people who like a button remote, who want simple useability (the custom programmer provides the sophisticated programming so the user doesn't have to worry about discrete codes, macros, etc.) Having macros on all LCD buttons, when used properly, make this remote a far better remote than the MX-500 for many situations, including higher end systems with many components.

Also, there are many who want an upscale remote that DOES have a SideKick, since they WILL have a second or third or fourth TV, HT system, etc. in their home.

---------

Again, the MX-700 Dual Remote System is not intended for exactly the same audience as the MX-500.

You may get your wish for an "unbundled" MX-700, and no one knows what the street price for the MX-700 will be.

I think you are jumping the gun quite a bit here before seeing the software, realizing how useful the SideKick can be for people who have more than one system in their house, and not knowing what the eventual "to the user" price will be.

... Greg :-)

Greg's right about the software, Brian. I use ProntoEdit regularly and have used the MX-700 software as well. The 700 software is much easier to use to program the remote. Granted a lot of that has to do with the fact that it doesn't have a touchscreen, but it's just so intuitive you almost don't need any instructions. I can't see anyone getting an MX-700 and not using the software once they've seen what it can do.

You may be right - I was just asking a question, though! The software may totally be worth it, and worth the price. But seeing what they came out with their flagship MX-1000 - I would hope it will be better than that. Kind of funny, you would think the MX-1000 is the $500 remote. It does have a higher model number after all! :)

But it is still my opinion (remember, MY opinion) that the sidekick is a bad idea. Even with my second TV, that remote is not useful! I would rather have a WeeMote to give to the kids. Not a remote that I can only get with a $500 package (or ok $400 street price package). They should just sell it as a $30 accessory if they want to. But they know they would sell about 2 a year. Look at the Pronto - you almost need a docking charger, but they sell that as an accessory. Why? Because they know you need it, and you will spend more on top of what you already spent to get it. HTM knows you won't NEED that 2nd remote, but they want to make more $$$ per MX-700, so they throw it in, and can charge a big price, because of the fact you are getting more for your money. They want to be at a certain price point, but probably knew that unless they sell 2 remotes, they won't get many takers at that price point. Again - this MY opinion - and is probably totally wrong. I am really just throwing things out there, to get discussion going on this remote. Maybe if HTM sees this they will set their pricing better on an MX-700! :)

And with a second TV - it is going to have its own remote that does far more than a completely overkill 190 step macro on a remote with a few buttons. Great, I can have it turn on the TV and tune to channel 3. Whippdy do! What if I want to change to channel 87, and I am on channel 4. Well, you gotta hit ch+ 83 times. Sounds great to me! The $30 Weemote2 has more power than this thing!

And if I offend anyone, sorry, but don't take it personally. As far as I know, no one on this forum actually WORKS for HTM and gets paid. I am not attacking you, or HTM - I am pointing out what I think is a bad marketing/pricing strategy. I think HTM makes great products, and I will probably end up with an MX-500, because the MX-700 will be out of my WIFE'S price range! :)

Bryan

Price comes down to supply and demand. I think HTM may have goofed in their predictions of the MX-500, and now they have excessive demand because the price point is too low. With the MX-500 demand curve figured out, they've adjusted the price of the MX-700 to maximize profit on the supply and demand curve. My $0.02 :)

....jb

Nothing taken personally.

The SideKick, in my opinion, cannot be compared to a WeeMote. Each has their strengths. Obviously the SideKick's strengths are not something that fits in with your ideas of a good "sidekick" remote. It does however fit in with the ideas of many users.

That being said, they are both great products, and it remains to be seen what the eventual street price is.

I can say however that the MX-700 is a vastly superior remote than the MX-500 most especially when used with complex HT systems.

... Greg :-)

I think you have to look at it as if the Sidekick is a free bonus remote, because it's effect on either the MSRP or the dealer price is effectively nil. While the $500 MSRP is prohibitive, you'll have to see what the actual going price is when it's released.

As Jason pointed out, if it's too expensive demand will be low and a price adjustment may occur. If the demand meets or exceeds the production level, the price will remain the same.

bacevedo: this is just a friendly discussion, no one is getting offended. And since none of the people who responded are from HTM, I don't think any one is involved with the decision to take it personally. I think they decided to add the second remote when they noticed the price MRSP they wanted (kind of like an eye catcher). When you have a TV and the remote breaks, and you look for a replacement, they ask $100, then you ask yourself if the remote is worth 100 how come they advertise the TV with remote for 200. Basically what I mean is even if they would have the 200 for $100 that is not how much less they would have the 700 as a stand alone. An other example (since you brought up the Pronto and its charger) Pronto charger MRSP $70, street $50, replacement battery $45. Does it make sense that the charger part is only $5? No, I am sure you cannot even find the power supply for that amount.

On the other hand HTM can do what they want, and it is your decision if you buy what they have or not.

Anthony - Yeah - I know it's a friendly discussion, but it seemed a few people were getting defensive and offended. That wasn't my intention. I just wanted to make sure people weren't offended.

I know what everyone is saying, I am just surprised more people don't share my opinion. To me it would be like Philips throwing in a "Pronto Light" with their Pronto Pro. Who would use it? I guess more people out there would use the 2nd remote than I thought. But something tells me they are using this as justification for their price.

And as for the price - here is what baffles me.

You have an MX-500 for $118 street. The MX-1000 for $280 street. The MX-1000 has a touchscreen (read more expensive to make), and customizable software that lets you do anything you want, bitmaps, etc.

So they introduce the MX-700 - which in my mind means it is "in between" the MX-500 and MX-1000. It shares the case, and most of the hardware with the in-expensive MX-500, so manufacturing costs aren't that much more. It even has software to customize it, however, it would have to be less complex than the MX-1000 software (I am a software engineer - I know about this), because it does less. I wouldn't be surprised to see the MX-1000 software based on this new MX-700 software. But the MX-1000 software would have to be more advanced, because the remote itself is more advanced. Anyway (I digress), you have a remote that is now $500, and yet it shares the hardware with a $118 remote, and has software that is less complex than what is included with a $280 remote. And the model number would imply that it fits between these two remotes in the line up. If they can produce a more complex remote, with software, for a $280 street price, why is this remote almost twice as much (MSRP - maybe 1.5 times street)? I know about supply and demand, but I also know about product lines, and price families. You wouldn't price a BMW 330 more than a 530, even though the 330 is newer. That is what they are doing, taking a mid-level remote, and pricing it higher than their supposed high end remote. On top of it, they "throw in" a "free" remote, that I would say would only be used a little, if at all.

Hey, that is what is great about our country. They can do whatever they want. I am just saying that so far, it doesn't make sense to me. And if they were to keep the price realistic, then I could buy this remote. I just think they will have a hard time selling this, because right now, I don't know of any local place that sells a Home Theater Master remote. The only place I know of is to get it online. So they are going to put out a $500 MSRP remote, to compete with the $300 Pronto or $1000 Pronto Pro, in a local market, where most people haven't even heard of them. I know what my local high-end shop will be pushing! It could also be a huge success, and I don't know what I am talking about! We will have to wait and see.

I just wish they would release more info about it. Why do companies have to keep it top secret? They don't have to put ads up on TV, but why not give us some feelers - keep the excitement going. Give us some anonymous source quotes! :)

Bryan "Not a marketing guy" Acevedo