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Topic:
How to wire Vanco audio balun with ground loop isolation?
This thread has 28 replies. Displaying posts 16 through 29.
OP | Post 16 made on Sunday January 21, 2024 at 16:16
Craig Aguiar-Winter
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On January 21, 2024 at 15:12, highfigh said...
I think it might be more accurate to say that breaking a ground loop prevents a connection between the audio/video or network grounding- one of the definitions from when I was working in 12V audio was "A ground loop occurs when the ground from an audio circuit or power supply impinges on the other.

The problems we generally see are on the cable feed when the installers don't do their job correctly, part of the system is using one phase of the electrical service feed and something else is using the other phase or if the wiring has resistance on the neutral and/or ground. This applies mostly to power supply using DC, but it can cause problems for us, too. OTOH, I have eliminated ground loops/noise in 12V and AV systems of the type we commonly work with by connecting a cable shield to the chassis of a piece of equipment.

Breaking the connection on the two conductors in an unbalanced audio/video feed often solves the problem but a lot depends on how this is done.

Good point about the balun picking coupling with power cords or possibly, power transformers.

I’ve encountered the not grounded Cable system many times. Or had one show up when a client did a repair with pex pipe as it was grounded to copper pipe. Won’t be the case with the coax in this case.

I’m hopeful that terminating the coax with better connectors and no adapters will fix this as the hum issue seems to be isolated to the cat6.
My wife says I can't do sarcasm. She says I just sound like an a$$hole.
Post 17 made on Sunday January 21, 2024 at 21:10
buzz
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On January 21, 2024 at 15:12, highfigh said...
The problems we generally see are on the cable feed when the installers don't do their job correctly,

Cable company installers are often a hazard because they don't attach their feed to the building ground point. This often results in the cable feed shield being many volts above your building ground -- sometimes to the point of being a shock hazard! Without a ground at your building, a wiring problem down the street becomes your problem too. If there is a lightning strike down the block, you'll probably own it too. I've seen sparks when attaching a cable feed. My first step if there is hum is to disconnect the cable feed. This usually eliminates the hum and gives me a big hint as to the cause.
OP | Post 18 made on Sunday January 21, 2024 at 21:22
Craig Aguiar-Winter
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On January 21, 2024 at 21:10, buzz said...
Cable company installers are often a hazard because they don't attach their feed to the building ground point. This often results in the cable feed shield being many volts above your building ground -- sometimes to the point of being a shock hazard! Without a ground at your building, a wiring problem down the street becomes your problem too. If there is a lightning strike down the block, you'll probably own it too. I've seen sparks when attaching a cable feed. My first step if there is hum is to disconnect the cable feed. This usually eliminates the hum and gives me a big hint as to the cause.

Yeah cable can be troublesome for sure.
My wife says I can't do sarcasm. She says I just sound like an a$$hole.
Post 19 made on Monday January 22, 2024 at 10:54
highfigh
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On January 21, 2024 at 13:04, Craig Aguiar-Winter said...
I’m using F connectors with RCA adapter as I have many times. That said I’m out of the ones from my regular supplier and got these from……. Amazon. I’m sorry.

I’ll replace the ends with some better ones.

Thanks!

I got my RCA ends for coax from Skywalker, so I'm not sure I would apologize for buying them from Amazon.....

The point I was making has to do with adding connections- if the cable ends make one connection on each conductor, it's theoretically more likely that adding another connector will increase the likelihood of failure.

Also, stacking two connectors adds length and the possibility that something will be stressed- subwoofer plate amplifiers often have cheap RCA jacks, even if they're expensive. I have repaired many, but I doubt yours are damaged since the Coax doesn't produce hum.

You posted "This run is about 60ft and the coax isn’t suitable (loss of signal over the distance)" earlier- To prevent adding cost and aggravation, I think measuring the coax for shorts is a good first step- do it with the RCA ends and without- you may find that they're not making good contact. If not, you have the option to use different adapters or replace the F connectors with compression RCA ends. If the cable shows resistance on the center conductor, a little can be overcome with the level controls.

If you have a TDR, you may find that the location of the problem is accessible.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
OP | Post 20 made on Monday January 22, 2024 at 15:24
Craig Aguiar-Winter
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On January 22, 2024 at 10:54, highfigh said...
I got my RCA ends for coax from Skywalker, so I'm not sure I would apologize for buying them from Amazon.....

The point I was making has to do with adding connections- if the cable ends make one connection on each conductor, it's theoretically more likely that adding another connector will increase the likelihood of failure.

Also, stacking two connectors adds length and the possibility that something will be stressed- subwoofer plate amplifiers often have cheap RCA jacks, even if they're expensive. I have repaired many, but I doubt yours are damaged since the Coax doesn't produce hum.

You posted "This run is about 60ft and the coax isn’t suitable (loss of signal over the distance)" earlier- To prevent adding cost and aggravation, I think measuring the coax for shorts is a good first step- do it with the RCA ends and without- you may find that they're not making good contact. If not, you have the option to use different adapters or replace the F connectors with compression RCA ends. If the cable shows resistance on the center conductor, a little can be overcome with the level controls.

If you have a TDR, you may find that the location of the problem is accessible.

Awesome info. Thank you. I’ll add that in to my trouble shooting.

Sorry but what’s a TDR. Not familiar with the acronym. If the coax turns out to be damaged I can run a new one in the conduit albeit not easily.

Craig
My wife says I can't do sarcasm. She says I just sound like an a$$hole.
Post 21 made on Monday January 22, 2024 at 21:10
buzz
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OP | Post 22 made on Wednesday January 24, 2024 at 09:14
Craig Aguiar-Winter
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On January 22, 2024 at 21:10, buzz said...

Wow that’s a cool piece of kit!!
My wife says I can't do sarcasm. She says I just sound like an a$$hole.
Post 23 made on Wednesday January 24, 2024 at 10:04
highfigh
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On January 24, 2024 at 09:14, Craig Aguiar-Winter said...
Wow that’s a cool piece of kit!!

I bought mine at ADI and it was about $70- Triplett, IIRC. SAved my butt a few times by telling me how far the problems were from the end where I had connected the tester. This is why I mentioned that the damage may be found in a place where it can be accessed.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
Post 24 made on Wednesday January 24, 2024 at 17:38
joaobosco
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You could ground either end, but if it's un-shielded, yeah, ground both. The metal RJ45s make me lean towards shielded for sure.
OP | Post 25 made on Thursday January 25, 2024 at 19:08
Craig Aguiar-Winter
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On January 24, 2024 at 10:04, highfigh said...
I bought mine at ADI and it was about $70- Triplett, IIRC. SAved my butt a few times by telling me how far the problems were from the end where I had connected the tester. This is why I mentioned that the damage may be found in a place where it can be accessed.

When I google it I get this:

[Link: triplett.com]

Would this be a newer version?

Edit: I read some reviews. One complaint is that it does not report on cable health.

Last edited by Craig Aguiar-Winter on January 26, 2024 07:05.
My wife says I can't do sarcasm. She says I just sound like an a$$hole.
Post 26 made on Friday January 26, 2024 at 10:57
highfigh
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On January 25, 2024 at 19:08, Craig Aguiar-Winter said...
When I google it I get this:

[Link: triplett.com]

Would this be a newer version?

Edit: I read some reviews. One complaint is that it does not report on cable health.

It's not only newer, it's much more expensive than mine. I just checked and ADI and theirs start at about $140, including a tone generator. I think mine is probably disco'd, but it does what I need.
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
OP | Post 27 made on Friday January 26, 2024 at 23:11
Craig Aguiar-Winter
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On January 26, 2024 at 10:57, highfigh said...
It's not only newer, it's much more expensive than mine. I just checked and ADI and theirs start at about $140, including a tone generator. I think mine is probably disco'd, but it does what I need.

Would you mind telling me the model of the one you found at ADI? I searched ADI Canada but only found them over $500. At least the ones that did cable health.
My wife says I can't do sarcasm. She says I just sound like an a$$hole.
Post 28 made on Saturday January 27, 2024 at 12:52
highfigh
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On January 26, 2024 at 23:11, Craig Aguiar-Winter said...
Would you mind telling me the model of the one you found at ADI? I searched ADI Canada but only found them over $500. At least the ones that did cable health.

I just found this one on the ADI site-


Triplett LVPRO10
My mechanic told me, "I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder."
OP | Post 29 made on Saturday January 27, 2024 at 18:05
Craig Aguiar-Winter
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Thank you
My wife says I can't do sarcasm. She says I just sound like an a$$hole.
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