You have used that context many times BP, I was not quoting exact words but this has been used by you and others many times with the discussions of how difficult these remotes are to program. I say they are easy and you say no they are too difficult for the consumers they should be programmed by professionals that is why they are professional remotes, let consumers have the consumer versions. This was argued many times.

My stance has always been these remotes are easy to program, everyone who owns a remote should be able to easily obtain the software and all versions of the software should have functioning "Live Update". It was completely wrong for URC to retroactively remove the "Live Update" and make it difficult for many to obtain the software. URC customers should be treated with respect by URC, not how this policy has treated many.

[Link: remotecentral.com]

then you help this schmuck. he wont live long enough to get it without numerous posts here or calls to urc

I came to this thread thinking that it had some merit and would get the attention of the likes of URC. Sadly it seems to have become a pi**ing contest between BigPapa & Rich_Guy. Gents, if you want to attack each other personally, go for it - just keep it out of the forums, its gotten pretty old already. Grow up and stop acting like spoiled kids.

Some of us (well, I have anyway) have gotten over URC's policy change and lack of support and starting to take business elsewhere. I wish them good fortune with their business, I have simply chosen not to continue to support them.

Just look up Sudkris or Ali in the installer forum, the amount of compitancy is very slim out there. You are giving way to many people way to much credit Rich, we have said many times that you are an exception. This is not an insult Rich

We all deal with idiots and guess what they buy remotes too, just as they buy and have trouble with every product in this world so this is nothing new. People ask questions with every product, this is not about how difficult URC remotes are, no matter what you make, no matter what you sell or do there are alway customers with stupid questions to be found.

Obviously as a CI you are attracting people who are idiots when it comes to dealing with remotes or A/V that is one of the reasons these people come to you.

I really would not call my clientel idiots, that is pretty idiotic to say the least. Most people realize that when someone does something everyday that the cahnces of them doing something better than they could of even a DIY. Is that really idiotic now??

When I first got out of high school I painted houses, got smart and went college though. Just recently I had my house painted by a pro, could I have done this. Of course, as good as them, probably not. As quick as them, of course not. Am I an idiot for doing this, I guess you think so.

Why do you try to twist words? I said this was one reason someone would come for help there is obviously many more than one reason. First I am giving people too much credit now not enough. You say people are not smart enough, then you say they are but.... People come to you for many reasons some of the people are smart and some may be dumb when it comes to dealing with remotes.

Some CI's here have complained their customers do not even know what the Play, Pause, FF and so on symbols mean well then these customers are very ignorant about remotes as this is common on almost every remote made. Just like every field you have some dumb clients and some very intelligent ones and everything in between, that is what makes up this world, all types.

"We all deal with idiots and guess what they buy remotes too, just as they buy and have trouble with every product in this world so this is nothing new."

I'll let your quote speak for itself then.

Yes and we all deal with smart people and average people too... this was my point. Smart people buy remotes, average people buy remotes and idiots buy remotes. The point being addressed was people were asking ignorant idiotic questions and just like idiots are everywhere some of them buy remotes. Smart people are everywhere too, average ones also. So just because some idiots ask idiotic questions it does not mean the average customer is not capable of programming their remote. Oh and even some smart people ask some idiotic questions sometimes too.

I have not been the one calling people dumb, some CI's keep saying people cannot program their own remote I say they can, the world is becoming much more high tech, most people own computers, cell phones, etc and really should be able to read the manual and learn how to program their own remote if they want or have the option to hire a CI. The average person shopping for a high end remote is going to be more capable and more interested in a remote than the average person and much more likely to be able to learn to program it themselves if they wish.

But you have been calling CI's thieves, that is why got involved in this thread.

Dude, you keep dropping lollipops for us to hit out of the park. What a completly ignorant statement. We also attract people who value their time, or just don't want the hassle of learning something that they will use once or twice over a long period of time. Of these people, most of them value our time also and appreciate what we do for them. We work in their homes, sometimes right in front of them, and see what we do.

You might not like it, but others do.

I've never made such a blanket statement. I'm sure you're too lazy to look or figure cinderkone will be here soon enough to research it for you, but I've never put it in that simplistic of terms. I state that these remotes are more difficult than most people think, some get em, some don't. Most don't, but of those most will pick it up with some effort.

I agree, you like to twist words the comment was not being made about peoples time or any other reason it was being directed at someones comments about idiotic questions and not being capable of programming a remote. So my comment is yes certainly there are people "idiots" absolutely unable to program one and CI's will attract this person so the CI will be led to believe there are more people unable to do this than the average. Sure you attract customers for many reasons. If I make a statement of this effect it is not meant to be the end all, I was addressing the comments said. There are many reasons people use or need CI's ignorance of remotes is only one and was the issue being addressed.

Yes, those most will pick it up by reading the manual. Your right BP I have better things to do than search your past posts. But you have made many comments to that affect when your argument was that these remotes are so difficult to program.

As I have said many times these remotes are not that complicated for someone who wants to take the time to do it themselves. The fact is the professional line is easier than the consumer line in many ways because of the computer programming. My URC MX-850 was the easiest remote for me to learn I have ever owned. If I had no manual I would have been able to program the remote, actually I did program a remote before I saw the manual the MX-editor makes it easy. Every other remote I have ever owned if I had no manual I would have been completely unable to program the remote without it. Yes I have a little more experience with remotes than the average person, this is where a good instruction manual comes in.

The most difficult part of programming a URC remote for many customers is obtaining the updatable software. This needs to be changed.

As much as I think we need a topic in this forum in which disgruntled URC customers can voice their unhappiness about URC's August Software Policy Change, I believe this thread has outlived its usefullness. I've tried to keep my comments to the most significant issue at hand.... the retroactive implementation of the software policy change. But others have turned this thread into their own personal grudge and pissing match. There are guilty parties on both sides.

I urge Daniel to close this topic and start a new one. A new one with a strong NO PERSONAL ATTACKS ALLOWED policy.

Mark