What about all of the Custom Installers here??

We pass exams, get licensed, spent numerous days in many manufacturers trainings, have been in the business for years(10+) and are still allowed to be undercut??

We arent undercut on URC anymore. We dont sell it. The RF issues and Ebay issues were the problem we saw so we moved on. we have had a few calls on assisting in programming and just refused to help.

We're all wasting our time on Pheonix (properly spelled Phoenix). We need to just let this die. He's not going to get it.

I don't ask anyone for discounts. I find them myself online. I have a CI friend who has no problems with how I feel. He is willing to charge me a fair $50/hour installing my equipment even if I buy it from online. He won't even bother trying to sell me over inflated rates because he knows I won't bite. But he has no problems making money from me installing my equipment. I went to one installer in town who only installs what they sell so they lost my Labor income.

I don't steal from anyone. I don't ask for discounts or for anything free. I find the best price online and go for it. Is this illegal? Am I putting you out of business because I buy online? I have asked a handful of questions on this site and at avsforums and most of the people helping are not CI. They are enthusiasts like me. I also have helped people with answers when I have known them.

Remote Monkey

Phoenix was taken so I used Pheonix. I get it you guys work hard and this is your life and you feel threatened by the internet. You guys have high overhead and you feel it is you right to charge whatever you want. I have no problem with your rates. I feel what you provide is valuable to many. Remember most people would just rather pay and have it taken care off. If I were in a B & M business I would adapt fast to the internet.

Pheonix, I doubt you could pass the exams we take either, not without years of study. You don't get it, we spend every bit as much time (probably more) to become educated in our fields as you do yours. So by your own definition we deserve to get paid as much as you? I'm sorry you don't believe me when I tell you I'd be giving you something at my expense if I were to sell you a MX950 at $379. You have this idea that we sell equipment at a 200% markup, guess again.

I would bet there are more geniuses in my field than there is yours, but we tend not to look down on other professions as others do ours. So don't think for a second there aren't people posting here that can't pass the same exams you do, given the time.

By the way you can buy programming help from ebay as well for $50 - $100 dollars.


I'm sure it takes a lot to become a CI. And I don't want to get into an argument which is harder to get into. I didn't realize it was as hard to become a CI as it was for me to get to where I am. By the way I had to have a 3.8 GPA in High school and be on the Honor Role. Get into a good College and maintain my GPA above 3.6 and take a really hard exam called MCAT (which included physics, organic Chemistry, chemistry, Biology more). Get into Medical School by impressing interviewers. Go through the nation Match and get into a Residency (one of the hardest in the USA). Work 36 hour shifts strait several times a week for years making $40K. Having $200K in Medical school loans because my parents couldn't afford it. Passing Step 1 of the Medical Boards, Step 2 of the medical Boards, and Step 3 of the medical Boards. Then passing a Nation Radiology Physics exam in year 2 of residency. Passing the Written exam in radiology in year 3 and an oral exam in year 5. Then getting a limited license for 10 years and repassing an exam every 10 years.

This whole process took 14 years of my life but to me it was well worth it. I don't look down on your profession. I think you provide a valuable service Again I think its nuts comparing Medicine to CI. They are two different professions. I know I couldn't pass your Exams just like you couldn't pass mine. But remember its 14 years for me. Out of curiosity how many years for you?

So if people start going to unlicensed doctors just because they undercut your prices and offer the same (or better) service as you, that's ok? Well, that's basically what you said about us and our industry.

Just as an unlicensed doctor would be unauthorized, so are people on eBay. What you should have done is at least call or e-mail some Authorized Dealers to see what the best price would be from one of us. Just because we don't advertise the lowest prices, don't mean we can't give better ones.

You are a professional in your industry and I am a professional in mine. There are rules to business and economics that simply do not support that method of doing business. If everyone started competing for the lowest price, what do you think would happen to service? What do you think would happen to the quality of products? They would all deteriorate until they became non-existant. The warranty you get from someone who is unauthorized is only as good as THE MANUFACTURER SUPPORTING IT. If that eBay seller gets caught and cut off, then what is your 3 year warranty worth if they can't get service? Nothing. They will simply close their doors and wave goodbye to you with a smile.




Thank you,
Damon DG
= = = = =
http://www.ProRemotes.com - Authorized Dealer & Remote Programming Services

Do you know why that was?? Its because people have bought stuff from the internet and had them install it..then it broke and the customer wanted the company to come and remove it for free and when it came back have it reinstalled for free.

Or when they were asked to add a Universal remote to the system it didnt support the proper codes to allow it work work in the system reliably and when there was an issue with it they were called and yelled at because it didnt power up right or didnt start playing and of course it was the installer fault for a piece of junk component they didnt sell??

We have a similar policy, if the unit is yours or you buy it online...there is a form you sign stating we are not responsible for it in any way....AND we test it in our shop for proper functionality to see if it is compatible in the system for proper operation...even if it is the exact same manufacturer and model we have spec'd in the system...you will pay for the in shop testing, we open it in front of the client and verify all contents and make any notes of the condtion of the unit.

and on a few occasions we have not installed the unit due to its incompatibility in the system..just said NO to installing it..we didnt want to waste our time or their money on a unit that will cause both of us problems in the long run

Phoenix, how do you confuse retail rates with "over inflated". Are you so dense? The discounted rates you buy at do not make retail over inflated. If something retails for $100 and I try to screw you for $150, then you have a beef. But if it's $100 retail and I sell for that, that's fair. If you can buy it for $75, more power to you. But as a business man you're an F'n idiot

First of all your installer must either be stupid or starving because $50 an hour is nowhere near fair. CEPro magazine just ran an article that stated that it COSTS the average dealer $64 an hour to have a man on the road in a company vehicle with proper licensing and insurance. Slightly less for the helper. (That doesn't even count broken or dulled drill bits, lost tools, flat tires, etc.) If I was a dealer that refused to do your install for $50 an hour I'm ahead of the game. I litterally chuckle when morons like you call and look for a rate like that. We have to charge $135 an hour for a crew and I should be charging more. I can't wait to see what happens when your $50 an hour guy puts his foot through your cieling or knocks over a $3,000 piece of artwork. Where's his insurance? He doesn't have any. I'll bet you think your POS Olevia looks just as good as a Sharp too.

One other poster here put it right when he said you're not our customer so we really don't care what you do. Excuse me, a client who's spent over $60K with us just came in to give us a deposit on his new project, he'll get my attention, people like you will not. Ever. So don't ever poke your head in my showroom and ask what I think about this remote or that receiver or this projector. Don't ask me to demo one for you. Demo it on ebay scmatta boy.

An unlicensed doctor would not be unauthorized it would be illegal. briremo I'm not looking for any help from you. And by the way I had no problems with the CI who refused to install my stuff I went else where and didn’t waste his time.

Oleiva is a great bedroom TV. My main TV is a Panasonic 50 inch 7UY and I plan on moving that to the basement and getting the New Panasonic 65 inch 1080 TV coming out soon. The installer I used not only got my labor but I ended up buying my speaker system from him at a cost of nearly 10K.

I can poke my head wherever I want and you can refuse to answer my questions it’s a free country. But I do my question asking online and figure things out for myself. Most of time I get the wrong answers from stores anyway so as to sell me stuff they make the most money on.

I think you missed the point. Unethical is still unethical - that's the point. It was an analogy to point out the fact that you didn't put an ounce of thought into how the end result might turn out.

If you try to exercise your "warranty" in 3 years, that seller may be long gone or the manufacturer may have cut off warranty service for any products they sold. You are not a smart shopper. For all you know, you bought it out of someone's trunk or off a mat on a NYC street. Of course, you don't care where it came from, just that you received it.



Thank you,
Damon DG
= = = = =
http://www.ProRemotes.com - Authorized Dealer & Remote Programming Services

I didn't miss any point. It is not unethical to buy something from ebay instead of you. If I have no warranty then be it I'm smart enough to weigh the risks of my decisions. I do not buy on the subway or off the street.

By the way my installer is in a small community and he knows he's gotten many referrals from me so he offers me a deal. He is insured and licensed and very professional. He knows how to make money and is doing good business in the community.

Pheonix (sp).

I'm quite sure that Mike at Surf Remote, Sound.SD, Edmund and Jars are not just enthusiasts. They didn't know you were a poser with a bad case of ingratitude and entitlement. Thanks for outing yourself. I guess you'll need to crawl beneath the radar again and slide in under a different name to get some undeserved free advise from people you've demonstrated your disdain for.

I've got my problems with ebay. This isn't an ebay thing, it's your attitude.

It's who you are not what you do. Radiologist or installer means nothing to me.

I have some ocean front property in arizona for sale on ebay..its at a discounted rate....its the same property realtors sale at full price and expect a commision on.

Im not asking any commision on the sale, My wife doesnt like the water and Im willing to let it go at less that what I paid for it

I will add in a URC remote that I bought off the streets in vegas..guy said it was under warranty as he was a dealer and this was overstock and he didnt steal it from them.
he was going to sell it on ebay but was trying to save the buyer a few dollars buy not adding any sellers or shipping fees to the price...I havent used it yet or even opened the box

People help on this site for the sake of helping not for the sake of getting something in return. I use the forum sponsors all the time. So this site is making money from me. If they want people like me to leave then they need but ask. This is the internet and everyone is entitled to help if someone is willing to provide it. I don't take without giving back. I have many more posts on AVS Forums and DBS Talk. I have helped many people with their AV questions.

You can get MRI equipment on eBay too!

Better yet...looks like anyone can get their degree from eBay too!

LOL



Thank you,
Damon DG
= = = = =
http://www.ProRemotes.com - Authorized Dealer & Remote Programming Services