I keep getting unrequested emails from Revolution Home Theater. In the middle of a bunch of problems with HDMI connections randomly taking random and undocumented control of systems, they sent out a newsletter today with a three-page (1 page printed, aint' the internet great for making you look bigger than you are?) article on how great HDMI cables are.

So what the heck! I sent them this at [email protected]. Why don't you send them some inquiries, too?



SUBJECT: HDMI Cables Ruining Installations, Costing Installers Time and Money

All right, so that's a rather hyperbolic Subject line. I have just finished reading your three page article on HDMI cables, and the article makes it seem that they are a solution to many interconnect problems.

In my brief experience with them, and the experience of others, though, they appear to introduce undocumented and unexpected results when actually in use with real components! For reference, please check out these threads at remotecentral.com:

[Link: remotecentral.com]

[Link: remotecentral.com]

[Link: remotecentral.com]


How is an HDMI Cable a solution if a DVD player won't turn on when the cable is connected? Where is the documentation showing what will happen when different brands are connected to other different brands?

Isn't this cable actually a whole new can of worms because manufacturers HAVE NOT worked out how to communicate what they will do?

I would be VERY interested in another article, one that goes into even more depth, about HDMI cables, but that shows us how to use, for instance, the following:

Scientific Atlanta Cable Box and Denon DVD Player
going through Gefen (not Geffen) 6 in, 2 out HDMI Switcher
to two displays: Panasonic Plasma and Sharp Projector.

If there is interaction between the switcher and the source, or between the display and the source, what are the rules for which display of the two will actually control the source? Note that the Gefen switcher's manual does not describe any control situations AT ALL.

Everybody ought to send them email accepting the FREE HDMI cable samples they were offered in the email. That will get their goat. Do you have a phone number for them? We can drive them nuts. Spammers are the lowest form of life.... no.. actually telemarketers are.

The question that I ponder is how long can we hold out with component video?
By 'we', I mean, the world of Pro video, Custom installation, and people like me that make analog video switches, all have had serious heartburn at one point or another around digital video, and building system solutions around that. (Julie, how about an in depth article on the future of whole house video in the face of copy protected digital video?).
I've always been the cheerleader for component video (the guy in pants with the megaphone, not the mini-skirts), partially because I don't see a whole lot of practial solutions for mutli zoned systems. The few product solutions out there for digital seem to be more bandaids than anything else.
So a question. Has anyone done a large scale whole house A/V system with HD everywhere, and done it with digital video? If so, what are the major pieces of the puzzle you used? Switching, routing, cabling, etc. Any drawbacks to the system?

my guess, not long. With AACS in Blu-ray and HD-DVD that has a feature that let's every studio dictate on the disk what will come out of the analog output (i.e. they could decide full HD or restricted and possibly none)

Down-rezzing will slow down, if not kill, any hopes for early wide spread acceptance of any new HD format.

I do remember reading an article though a few weeks back where a Fox exec stated that down-rezzing was not going to be an option on their discs. So hopefully no studio is dumb enough to try and do it.

Why? Call me a cynic, but I think most people don't know what they are doing. How many people have progressive DVD players hooked up to HDTVs using composite? How many people think they are watching HD when watching football just because Fox told them so even though it is a standard 4:3 set and normal NTSC channel? My guess the early adopters that are into this will go HDMI, and J6P won't even know enough to care.

Analog video will be with us for a very long time, if for no other reason than distance. To the best of my knowledge, unless one transcodes the digital signal to fiber, you have serious distance limitations on HDMI. With the KDS repeater you will get a maximum of 150 ft of HDMI. In Manhattan apartments that surfices but not in most homes. Hence analog video whether over CAT5 or serial digital cable will be around for a long time. When you add matrix switching into the equasion analog video is even more important. HDMI switchers are expensive and the EDID communication becomes an issue unless a scaler is built in to the unit. More expense, more issues. My solution is to use HDMI on the theater ( or biggest screen ) and distribute via analog. The difference between component video and HDMI is very minor if the analog is done correctly.

Alan

Take a look at this article:
[Link: ultimateavmag.com]
From the signs coming from both HD disc formats, down-rezzing may not be up to the disc publisher, but mandated by the disc licsense.
Hollywood likes it (no 'analog hole')
The creators of BR and HDDVD all like it (manufaturers like Sony, Philips, JVC, Toshiba, Panasonic, et all), (go buy a new TV).

So instead of a system that has 8 sources of video and 8 zones to display that video in, you will be forced to get 8 BD/HDDVD players, 8 HD cable/sat boxes, and put them in each zone, and not be able to have any global features like Kaliedascape, ReQuest, or other servers. Kind of sucks, eh?

See, I think this is a strategic mistake on the part of the manufacturers. The percentage of people doing custom whole house mutlizone systems today is small when compared to the typical BB customer that the big manufacturers are playing to. However whole house systems are becoming more affordable, and are starting to appeal the the BB customer. In addition, more and more new construction projects are planning for whole house systems. So the market potential for selling displays and devices per household is increasing. Where today, Joe average might have 1 HD and 2 SD TVs in his house, there is a potential to have that average move up to 4 HD TVs, and more if you include touch panels. But with these looming problems, Joe Average's options are limited, so he might opt for less TVs.
In short, I believe that affordable whole house systems will sell additional HD TVs throughout the home, but only if they can be integrated into the whole system.

Well said Allen

Hi Bill,

This is off-topic, but thanks for sending me info on the neothings Avalon switcher.

Check you email, as I'd like you to send me a manual if possible (pdf would be perfect).

Darryl

|From the signs coming from both HD disc formats, down-rezzing may not be up to the disc publisher, but mandated by the disc licsense.

Look up AACS/ ICT

AACS is the CP/DRM used by both BR & HD - DVD, Image Constraint Token (ICT) is a flag that can be set to down rez the pic or not. ICT was passed not long ago into the specs.


that is not right. ICT only counts for decompressed video (i.e. from player to TV) In a server/player environment what is important will be managed copy. It gives a server the ability to copy a disk to the HDD, if the DRM used is acceptable to AACS and has AACS accreditation. Also ACCS has a policy that at least one copy must be allowed from all disks. So this will make Kaliedascape easier and less prone to legal attacks

Well, our HDMI guru, who does some freelancing for CE Pro, has this to say about the various HDMI threads. His name is Jeffrey Boccaccio, www.invisiontech.com.

[Link: remotecentral.com]?
6383,new#new
The first question I would have would be how long the cable was. I would run the system with a short 1 meter HDMI cable to not only test the cable but also the length.
It could also be an HDCP issue or even a "Hot Plug" problem that is mandatory for the HDMI Rev1.1. This is a 5 volt DC voltage that is used to inform the sink of presents. That would be the first place to start.
The serial port that is used for the HDCP is a standard I2C comm link that can be shared by many logical controllers and DSP's in a unit. Sony may be doing something here, being that source and sink are made by them. That is a possibility, I can only guess at this. Let's do the tests and see where we fall.


[Link: remotecentral.com]
My first suspect here would be the EDID communication was either not taking place or the HDMI cable was defective and this line was open.
Again, try a new cable, preferable one that has been used and proven.
The EDID is the "plug and play" com port that notifies the source what the native resolution is. It may be that the display is either not sending the data or is not making it to the source. Let's try the cable first. It is the easiest. Then we can go from there. We may also want spec,s on the products being used.

he invites more questions. At some point I'll get him on this thread so he can respond directly.

Most EDID issues are the result of the way manufacturers are implementing this communication. It is a file that is dumped out of a separate location, not even in the processor. This happens only once and there is no communication back on forth been the send and receive devices should the EDID communication be missed or misinterpreted by either device.

The very smart folks at KDS inform us at CEDIA that with THEIR cables will work at lengths of to 75 feet without issues. I was supposed to have tested this but like everything else in my life I am a bit late. Perhaps this weekend. I have heard that HDCP has been problematic at distances over 40 feet.

Alan

HDCP is problematic at any distance it's the outright guts of these people to decide for the rest of us that it is time for new equipment! I am a dealer just like most of you and hey it's going to bring me business, however it's going to bring a lot of heartache also. I am very loyal to my customers and I am sick of Hollywood and the equipment mfgs dictating. There are just so many things they do that pisses me off "letterbox" well kiss my @#$ who the hell wants those bars...am I watching the way you intended hollywierd..how about the way I want..it's my stuff!

At the end of the day they are going to do what they think benefits them not us or our customers. I can't go back and add HDCP or HDMI after the fact in a 20k sq. ft house that is finished. Since the equipment room houses everything how are you supposed to get it there now. I will just lie low and let the geeks work it out..till then I am going to keep doing it the way I know it w2orks!

While HDCP is an issue over about 15 meters we have hed no problem supporting over 100' with our restorer.
With any cable over 5 meters I recommend that you pretest prior to installation.
Any AND all HDMI cable mfgrs have the same problem of mounting all of those little cables onto all of those little pins. There will be problems even from the best mfgr.
We have developed an HDMI cable testor (send & receive units) to verify that all of the cable circuits are complete (note: this does not test signal strengh only that the circuits are complete). Starting next week we will be testing all of 10/15/20 & 30 meters before they are shipped. Hopefully this will reduce field problems.
Also the testor will be available to installers in about 45 days (delay due to finding the right housing).

Is anyone going to Locuspaloosa in Philly/Richmond next week or EHXpo in Anaheim, we will ahve the testor there.