A big plus for other systems vs. RTI is that you program the "system", not each individual interface.

Savant programming time doesn't matter if you have 1 UI or 100 UI's, it's all the same amount of time (in 99% of jobs)

Punter16 -

If you are programming and it's taking you some time, I highly recommend that you take a look at Integration Designer APEX. APEX has some great features for any business, allowing them to save their devices in what we call "bundles." That preserves all your programming, graphical placement, and special functionality so that you can use it each time. We illustrate a programmed system with bundles and it took about 10-15 minutes to program.

Each control system has advantages, and all of them are very good. RTI offers custom integration and being able to create the ideal client experience. There is no annual quota or major buy-in, and we have programming and design services. I have PM'd my phone number if you want to speak privately.

Also, we will be sending out invitations to our 6-week "APEX Online" course which will meet two days a week for 90-minute sessions starting on Tuesday, April 14th. I encourage you to join and check out APEX. I think we have a powerful platform with some pretty incredible features. After the first two or three courses, you will have a grasp of what it is all about and what it can offer your business.

Thanks,
Vincent
RTI Dealer Experience

ID is done. If you are doing RTI you need to learn APEX, its the future. Yea it sucks learning it (coming from ID) but once you learn it you will say how the hell did I use ID for so long.
The only time you should be using ID is to update older projects. Anything new is done in APEX.

RTI is offering an on-line class now, no expense to travel to MN.

In APEX, they have bundles. You make your bundle for each device - IE: AppleTV for iPad, Sonos for a keypad or remote, etc.
When you start programming, just load up the bundle you need and you are DONE.

Bundle = Source+RTI Device+GUI

Moving from ID to APEX will be difficult for some because certain mindsets need to be broken before you'll be comfortable with APEX. APEX is not ID on steroids, APEX is a different mindset.

I was using an approach in ID that was very popular with clients, but it was nasty to setup and maintain. In ID I would need to visit each screen to update something as simple as a room name or channel icons. In multi-room setups this was very time consuming. This is easy in APEX -- after you give up your ID work habits.

RTI users:

Would you now say that APEX is far enough long through evolution and revisions that it would be a good time to move from ID to APEX? I ask because APEX seemed to be released bare bones but seems to have positive progression enough to make the move. 12yo ID user here (no Ernie, I'm not 12 years old).

I think a lot has changed since APEX was first released back in July of 2017. By the time version 10.4 came out, it was much superior to ID9 in many ways. I wish I had this software when I was an RTI dealer. Between the auto-programming, scalable graphics, layers, bundles, room proxy (a fancy word for room tracker) and the ability to make changes to commands, macros, and feedback in a single place, its heads and tails better than ID9, and extremely powerful. I think the time to learn window opened a long time ago, and we keep adding feature after feature, because we can, not because its 'not ready.' It has a more structured approach, but that invites so many great features and organization, which is a welcome change from ID9 where you are just programming graphics.

After you are comfortable with APEX the dilemma will become how to handle updating an ID configuration. You’ll be debating if you would save time by trashing the ID version and moving to APEX.

Are the RTI video courses new and easy to understand? When are they available?

I think they are doing online training for free. I need to find the link . I recall seeing that in my email.

You know the pros and cons of RTI. They are a much better single room solution than an automation/control system. Can they do automation? 100% For us we moved to ProControl instead of RTI for homes without automation. I think we love and push automation but most homeowners don't care nearly as much as we do....

Savant is a very reliable product. The only issues we've had in the past few years were their gray remote and the first gen of their latest remote. I don't know if that has been fixed with their new "Pro" remote. Programming can be done fairly quickly system wide and the UI is great! I really like Savant. However, here are my negatives:
-Entry cost is fairly expensive.
-The software is a beast. A LOT of nooks and crannys to get lost in and forget how to do something. They don't even have a consistent place where macros live. WTF? If you don't program in Savant often, you will forget all of the little things required to create automation. Simple remote control of equipment is however fairly easy.
-Very little customization. For most this isn't a negative including myself.
-Licensing for number of rooms, devices, loads are stupid. I know a lot of companies implement this but it blows when you price out a job for 12 rooms and then you need to add one more room. Oh, that requires a different license which is stupid expensive. I have no idea where they are at with numbers but it was that way 2 years ago (when I was specing it).
-Compatibility between software, firmware, etc is a nightmare. Evening trying to find a document to know what is compatible with what version of MacOS isn't easy. It SUCKS. I literally have a MacMini sitting in our showroom rack. I went to upgrade it a year ago and we were told that the latest software won't work with the MacMini. So you will need to buy a new one at thousands of dollars. Doah-k. Also good luck with MacOS. You will likely need a MacBook that has 3 or 4 versions of MacOS to program different systems.
-Their profiles frankly suck. There are thousands of devices but most profiles are incomplete.
-They seemed to be focused on adding BS product lines more than fixing their cluggy programming environment.
-Do not update software unless it is critical or you need to add a feature that wasn't there before. You will get out to the site, have to update profiles, update MacOS, update firmware on the host, generate services, OMG I'm getting anxiety just typing this.

I will repeat Savant products are great for the customer because they are fairly bulletproof and it give the customer a sexy UI! But damn it's a challenge being on the dealer side.

So basically, you are not recommending it to your peers, except maybe your direct competitors? :P

Great post! My experience with them is very similar. Happy to not be working with that stuff anymore.

1000% it is. Its been ready for prime time for almost 2 years now. I hated APEX when it first came out, gave up on it a handful of times. But you need to adapt and learn it. It takes a bit, but you will have that ahh moment and get it. Its light years ahead of ID. Its seconds to do things.

Also, I speak from real work experience with 100 of installs out in the real world, from sports bars with 80+ TVs, to single room systems. Vincent can vouch for this !!

Look at their free classes they are offering next week. Then start progrmaming your home system and you will see the light !

What’s the status on reliability of RTI products?  All of us who tried to hang on to them will never forget the amount of remote control failures or underpowered control processors. Not to mention the fact that it was always the “first time they heard of that issue”

I tried like hell to hang on to my love of RTI because way back in the day they were fantastically reliable. about 2 years ago I decided I would no longer attempt to support or service anything RTI. If I come to a project with RTI, It goes or I go.  Not worth the headache.

and yes, plenty of experience with RTI.....almost as long as they’ve been around!