I'd been using RTI since 2006.

The RTI distributor was changed a while ago and it was the one major and final nail in the coffin that convinced me to delete any and all instances of Integration designer from my laptop and refer any existing clients to other techs.

I'm more involved with Control4 than Savant, but I work closely with people who use both.

I really cannot see why anybody would be persevering with RTI at all. The time spent in programming and templates is just insane. Some people like their custom backgrounds and tepmplates etc., but C4 gives you more options there now as well. I just don't see the value in it when you take into consideration all of the other aspects such as support and driver development.

When the dealer changed here, (Australia) we went from an experienced team on the other end of a telephone (albeit with their own shortcomings) to a mobile phone number with a voicemail message that you would perhaps get a response from within the next 24-48 hours. The support for C4 (again, although far from perfect) is so far over and above what RTI has EVER offered that I just would not even consider trying to deal with the two-bit clown show that RTI has become here in Australia.

If you go looking for support with RTI, the issues and inconsistencies and variations in methodology that you can encounter are equal to the amount of people there are out there programming it. The most common reaction I get from customers when I change them over to C4 from an RTI system that someone had done for them years ago, is that it just looks and handles so much better. The openings for people to turn RTI into an incomprehensible sh!t-show just doesn't exist with Savant or RTI.

It's the difference between working with a product that is a "solution" (Savant/Control4) versus messing around with a science project (RTI).

HiFiRobbie - I do wonder if Connected Media are growing RTI across Aussie and NZ? Or are they being gobbled up by the hyper aggressive C4 sales crew?

What is the learning curve for C4 programming vs RTI Apex? Really it's the Apex learning curve that turns me off right now. It kind of reminds me of the Crestron System Builder days. I don't know if I want to invest hours and hours getting good on it at this point in my career but then again I'm not working much right now so it may be a good time.

C4 are aggressive, no doubt, but I find their admin/logistics side of things leaves a bit to be desired.

I'm still chasing them over a "deposit" that I had to make on what was supposed to be an RMA, but they required me to pay up front for a new unit before they would release the replacement. This was supposed to be refunded upon inspection/approval of the faulty unit, but yeah... ...still waiting.

As for Connected Media, I have no idea what they're doing, but I fail to see how they can compete. I don't know anyone who is becoming a new adopter of RTI and as far as I know, more and more people are failing to see the value in what is essentially, a completely bare-bones time-vampire. I've heard a few stories about how the change-over was orchestrated and as a result, I've no desire to learn/dissipate any more information about it at all. Most of the folks I work closely with have bailed on them altogether and are now doing limited legacy support for high-tier customers that they don't want to be held to ransom on by Control4 and their new dealership minimum turnover rules.

Overall, I've really lost a lot of faith in suppliers, manufacturers and distributors over recent years. Even more than I had in my previous incarnation in the industry.

As my name would suggest, I am primarily a high-end audio guy, and in that side of things there USED to be a real passion among the dealers and distributors. The distributors used to be able to talk equipment with you and give comparisons on products because they were experienced. Now, they're all just venture capitalists who sell whatever product they can get their hands on, regardless of its quality, heritage or long-term support/reliability. There's no interest in end-user satisfaction or providing an outstanding solution.

As you can probably imagine, I'm using my downtime to do some serious soul-searching. The old-school clients who appreciated a person who has dedicated his life to the industry are getting thinner and thinner on the ground, and I've no desire at all in competing in what is quickly becoming a race to the bottom.

Sorry if this has gone on a rant/tangent, but this has been quite cathartic. :)

Fair enough - integrator's often move from one brand to another due to technical issues. However, it's not that any brand is missing those issues, instead it's HOW they deal with them that matters.
You're right, passionate C.I. distributors are few and far between. They ARE out there though, whether or not you can / will deal with them will depend on many, many factors.
The ANZAC nations have seen far too many moves in the C.I. brand space over recent years to give their customers much love. In NZ, the Aussie companies swoop in, promise moon-beams and never deliver... in Aussis there's foolish decisions made by overseas manufacturers / distros that mean a brand can go from distributor 5 times in 4 years! There's many people to blame, but for many C.I. companies it's about as easy to change your control company as it is to change your wife.
Possible... but not necessarily easy or fun!

Exactly, and when the control company locks you out of their software after you quit being an active dealer, you effectively lose your customer-base.

When you look at it that way, what you may consider to be "your" customer is essentially theirs. You merely become the conduit that delivers the product. And then, if for whatever reason things turn sour, you've either got to try and convince them to move to another system at huge expense (possibly with similar risk) or simply hand them over/lose them to another dealer.

Like you said; Not easy, and not something I'm comfortable with having hang over my head.

In the previous era one could continue with a product line for a while using the software on hand. Eventually this breaks down as platforms evolve, but with the current trend of developing configurations on cloud based systems, it only requires one click to be rid of a dealer.

I'm with you 100% on that.

Nothing is as reliable as it was 20 years ago.

Granted,you can do a lot more these days.

Too bad a simple Apple(or other) update can destroy your programming and user functionality in the blink of an eye!

Maybe I just take too much pride in providing a reliable control solution and should move on.

Time to figure out what I want to be "when I grow up" ?

I'm grumpy too.

Apple in particular annoys me because I have no control over their updates. In some cases the update will remove a capability that is fundamental to the control App. I am blamed because "everything else works". In some cases the author of the App might take weeks or months, if ever, to respond to the Apple change.

In the good old days a system would continue operating until the hardware disintegrated. Now, the next update could destroy things.

A service contract arrangement with our customers could help, but there are risks. Tonight company XYZ updates their platform and tomorrow all of your installations depending on XYZ go down, possibly without warning to you. Of course, your customers expect you to come out and fix things the next day because they have a service contract. The biggest risk is that the whole control system might need retooling if XYZ shuts down.

The best partner companies are on top of pending Apple changes and will provide advance notice to you of pending changes and offer access to beta code for testing. In many cases you will be able to update your clients ahead of tonight's shutdown of that soon to be legacy feature.

My customers are cold to the idea of service contracts and my having online access to their system. Your experience might be different. I always explain up front that there are risks to these control systems and that I can make things convenient to operate now, but not future proof.

This 100 times over.

My credibility is important to me, and it can be incredibly embarrassing when you've sold your client on a product that, at the time, you trusted and believed in, and are then forced to eat your words. This is happening more and more (small numbers, but once is too many), and I'd rather change careers than be known as the guy that promised a reliable, serviceable system, only to be shagged over by the product developers who had other ideas.

My own C4 system has a recurring problem where the volume output of the dms randomly sets itself to zero, which requires me to log in and reset it to 100%. Tech support have no clues but told me "Yeah, we've encountered that a few times". If this was a client's system, I probably would have lost them by now.


So far, I've experienced that it's never too late to learn something new, and I've done it many times, but at 45 years old my opportunities are slimming. We have a few larger operators in our area who are pretty unscrupulous in the way they sell/deal and while I'm sure I could probably do alright if I left my morals at the door, it's not something I'm interested in doing.

I've a feeling that the world is going to be a pretty different place at the end of this pandemic thing, with different needs, so I'm investigating options to cater to them.