All,

We are using this down-time (like many) to refine our offerings and our skills and we've seen a LOT more Savant out there over the last year or so. We've been programming RTI for 10+ years but realistically we only have one guy who is great at it. I wanted to get your thoughts on Savant vs. RTI as we want to go forward and excel with one line or another.

One great thing we've seen with RTI is that our installed systems just work. We RARELY have to go back for any form of service issues. NOTE: We limit 2-way feedback on the T2I and use RM433s mainly so this may be helpful in reducing service issues that other guys have experienced.

One not-so-great thing we've experienced is the time it takes to program, especially when there are multiple form factors. We do plan on learning APEX cold with this down time as we were all ID guys so this may help.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

Ther4e is very little UI programming on a savant system. and as long as you stay within their box. it definitely "Just works"

I dont understand why it would take so long to program RTI though. Once you have the templates done, why would have to spend much time on UI's?

We went to RTI years ago and have been happy with everything. We streamline systems using the same products in projects.

We also have all the programming in a very large file.

So every Keypad Ipad and Remote before we edit it down has DTV, Dish, Suddenlink TV, Apple TV, Roku, Heos, Sonos, Sony 4K Bluray, Samsung Bluray, Nest, Lutron and a few other things on them.

So when we're ready to program we open up that copy and clone it then delete out what we don't need, rename and move some buttons around and it goes pretty quick.

What brands of electronics are you running?
Amps / AVR's / Multi-room etc?
Often the driver differences can be enough to make you want to stick / move... or supplement with.

I have done both.
RTI, once you are comfortable with the software, it should be fairly easy. As mentioned above, I too have templates with codes for most of the basic items I use. Use the same IR / RS323 ports etc from one job to the next. This also makes it easier on techs when they do have to go and service a system. And for the most part, once you are done it works until someone drops a remote. If you need to customize the Gui, or have equipment that needs tweeking to control, it all can be done with ease. Lots of helpful drivers have been made to make programming quick and allow you to add features without a ton of other knowledge. Plus RTI does offer a variety of devices from remotes to keypads for those projects where everything does not always need to be done through the app.

Savant. Typically much faster to get a basic system up and running. As long as you stay within the profiles they have, which there are a ton of them, you can configure multi room and theatre room or other combinations with ease.
Customization is where it becomes difficult. Don't like the GUI, yes you can change it but you are opening up a can of wtf. Have a device that is not in the list, again you can add it but this is where it starts to get a bit more complicated and take a lot of time.
Plus the costs for upgrading from one version of firmware to the next can be high or require an upgrade to the main host which gets really expensive. And they seem to have a bug up their A$$ about using other brands of switching. But, much like RTI, the systems I have out there seem to work well and often a quick restart solves any issues that come up.

Well, when you have the dominatrix kick you in the nuts, do you prefer her to wear Combat boots or high heels? If you like the but clunky functional boots, then stick with RTI. If you like the sexiness of a nice pair of stilettos, go with Savant. Because both are going to kick you in the nuts and steal your wallet at some point.

I would ask this and look at profitability. How long does it take to get a programmer up and running and completing projects for either system?

My experience is that it takes far more training/trial and error dollars to get a proficient RTI programmer completing systems. Yes you have to go to a MAC with Savant, but once you start making systems function within Savant, finishing a project, far faster and more profitable.

Not to mention Savant has a deeper and more functional product line. Amplifiers with music streamers built in. Speakers from Revel and Artison. Lighting, Shades, Thermostats and IP video with tiling functionality built in without special programming hurdles. Yes RTI has more touch panels, remotes and keypads. But who does that anymore with the advent of the smart phone and tablet?

And soon a Las Vegas 22 million dollar spec house to take/send your clients too.

If you are seriously looking for a new control system, I would look at C4 or Elan. Both have a better solution of programming and better dealer support.

With any of these systems, be sure that you are comfortable with the up front buy-in.

Personally, I will not go with C4 because of the buy-in and if I don't give them enough business they may transfer all of my systems to another installer. And I can't forgive their Extra Vegetables stunt.

Good one, havent seen that one in awhile, LOL

+1000

URC's total control has come a LONG way as well. Easy to program and maintain. Worth a look.

I'm an ace programming with ID10 but Apex programming is complex and hard to grasp in my opinion. It's supposed to make it easier to program larger projects but it seems like people still have problems with it. I've tried a few times to program systems and went to the one day training they offered in my city. It wasn't enough and you have to spend some money for training in their facility. Maybe this is the time to spend more time on it. I would love to hear about others' experiences with going to Apex. What percentage of programmers are on it and is it worth the investment in time and money to switch?

I know it wasn’t a choice, but +1 Total Control is on top of it.

All,

Thanks for the feedback. This is good stuff...especially the kick in the nuts portion.

Our remotes typically take around 1.5 hours for programming and testing. This is assuming they are known components and we already have templates made.